Engine problems - where to start looking

I have a L1501, but with a 3 cylinder engine. I've had it about 6 months now, and it's been purring like a kitten.

Using it today - I had started it got it out of the shed, and was just starting to move. Suddenly - a huge clunking noise from the engine. Imagine a diesel knock, except it sounded like a rock breaker in volume.

Engine continued to run while I frantically tried to shut it off. I'm not certain, but I think there was black smoke coming out the exhaust - but I was a little busy.

Based on the noise, my first thought is that I've snapped a piston rod. What other things could it be and where should I start looking? Or do I just try to find a good mechanic (I'm a dabbler at best) right from the start?

Cheers,
Mike.
 

Pepsiboy

Member

Equipment
BX2350D, FEL, MMM, Rear tiller
Oct 3, 2014
167
1
18
Shell Knob, Mo
I have a L1501, but with a 3 cylinder engine. I've had it about 6 months now, and it's been purring like a kitten.

Using it today - I had started it got it out of the shed, and was just starting to move. Suddenly - a huge clunking noise from the engine. Imagine a diesel knock, except it sounded like a rock breaker in volume.

Engine continued to run while I frantically tried to shut it off. I'm not certain, but I think there was black smoke coming out the exhaust - but I was a little busy.

Based on the noise, my first thought is that I've snapped a piston rod. What other things could it be and where should I start looking? Or do I just try to find a good mechanic (I'm a dabbler at best) right from the start?

Cheers,
Mike.
Mike,

Sorry to hear you are having trouble. FIRST, I would check the outside of the engine to see if there are ANY cracks or breaks in the block or head. Then I would check to see that there is oil in the crank case, coolant in the radiator. Make sure that there is nothing contaminating the oil, such as water or fuel. Look for discolored or milky oil or foaming oil. Also check to see that there nothing contaminating the coolant, such as oil or fuel. Also check fuel sample to see if there is anything in there that should not be there, such as water or gasoline.

IF everything looks ok, try starting again. If it runs smooth, there is probably nothing wrong. If it does NOT, shut down IMMEDIATELY and call dealer.

Sorry I can't be more help than that. Good luck.

Dave
 

Tx Jim

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
M7040 HDC-1,JD 4255,Ford 6700
Apr 30, 2013
1,176
117
63
Coyote Flats,Texas
My 1st thought would be a faulty injector considering that you stated black smoke was emitted that is if oil in crankcase is correct level..
 

ShaunRH

New member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3200
May 14, 2014
1,414
6
0
Atascadero, CA
Uh, if it sounds awful, I would not 'restart' it. You need to verify that there is nothing wrong with the engine itself first.

After verifying all the fluids are good (no oil in the coolant, no coolant in the oil and all levels are good) I would do a compressionless turn over. If the tractor can pull compression, do that, but do not allow fuel to the cylinders. Then crank over and listen for any gear grinding, banging or rattling. If you hear that, something big is up internally and the engine is coming out of the unit or apart while in the unit. If you aren't comfortable with that, find someone who is or a mechanic.

If you don't hear any grinding or rattling, put the compression back to the engine and turn over again with the fuel off. See if the condition remains quiet, if not, do the above. If it does then I'd verify all the injectors were working, pull them and see if you get fuel out of all of them when cranking it over.

If they are all good you can put them back and check your fuel system, someone may have accidentally added something, etc. Check your air system. Then try a restart. The second anything seems 'wrong' kill it.

Personally, it sounds like a timing gear has slipped a tooth. It's very rare but if a shaft wears funny, or a chunk of material gets into the timing cover it can happen.
 

kuboman

Member
Dec 6, 2009
725
4
16
Canada
If it has a mechanical fuel shut off I would crank it with the fuel off and see if the noise is present or if it is an electric shut off pull the plug on the solenoid and crank. I am betting it is a bad injector. I had the same situation with my B3200 where it was running fine and then suddenly started hammering but I was sure of the noise and just let it run and clear itself which took less than 30 seconds. Get yourself a good fuel conditioner/lubricant and dose your diesel fuel. It is possible a connecting rod let go but that is rare at low rpm.
 
Thanks heaps for the advice everyone. I haven't had a chance to empty the fluids yet to check for contaminents - it might have to wait until the weekend - but that will definitely be my first point of call.

The tractor does have a mechanical fuel shut off, and the ability to turn over without compression, so that will hopefully help diagnose without doing further damage.

I'm praying for a blocked injector, because I think if it's anything else it will be much worse. And I remembered after you all suggested it that I had just filled the fuel tank before moving the tractor. I wonder if the fuel (which was only purchased a few weeks ago) might have been bad.

I will let you know how I get on.

Thanks again!
 

kubotasam

Well-known member

Equipment
B2410, B7100dt, B7500,Woods BH750,Landpride 2660RFM, Tiller, B2781 Snowblower
Apr 26, 2010
1,200
125
63
Alfred Maine
I wonder if the fuel (which was only purchased a few weeks ago) might have been bad.

I will let you know how I get on.

Thanks again!
Are you positive it was diesel fuel you added not gasoline?
 
Ok - been playing with it all day now.

1) Emptied coolant. Coolant is rusty, but otherwise good. I let it settle in a glass jar, and there is no oil.

2) Emptied oil. Oil is free of any coolant. Oil looks in good condition. However, there was a small piece of rubber, and a small piece of metal shaving in the sump that came out with the oil. By small, I mean smaller than my little fingernail.

3) Fuel is clear, and definitely diesel. Let it settle in a glass jar and it is free of anything that looks wrong.

4) Replaced oil filter, and refilled with oil.

5) Turned over without fuel and without compression. Seemed to turn over fine - no bad noises.

6) Loosened the injection lines to guarantee no fuel in the cylinders (fuel is still turned off, and fuel tank empty). Re-enabled compression. When turned over with compression, horrible clunking sound is back, and the engine seems to "pause" before clunking and turning over some more.

All of which leads me to believe I am at the end of my capabilities. Sounds to me like the injectors are not the problem, but something inside the engine. I have no idea what would make that noise with compression, but not without.

So I'll now have to find a good mechanic to have a look. If anyone has any thoughts, please let me know. In my mind, we have possibilities in the pistons, or the timing gear as mentioned in an earlier post.

As soon as I find out what it is, I'll let you all know.

Cheers!
 

Blkvoodoo

Member

Equipment
B2400, LA352, RC60, Cammond Box Blade
Mar 27, 2010
141
3
18
Zebulon NC
Pull valve cover and check all springs, slowly rotate engine by hand and watch all spring and valve movement, a broken valve spring will let valve drop and the piston head will hit it, it's not nessisarilly catastrophic, and doesn't always cause harm if it's caught soon enough. The best part is the valves move in liner motion with the piston, so no angular force to bend valve or piston.

IF this is the case! SLOWLY rotate engine by hand ( putting offending cyl at TDC for that hole) to push valve back up BEFORE trying to mess with valve spring retainer and keepers

if you do this before the piston holds it in place, you will drop valve into cyl and then need to remove head.

I've done this several times on various engines, take your time, it's free compared to sending to the shop....
 

North Idaho Wolfman

Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Jun 9, 2013
28,286
4,853
113
Sandpoint, ID
I'll second pull the valve cover and have a look around. ;)
 
Ah crap. Apparently I have a broken crankshaft. The problem would seem to be finding a new one now.

The engine has been replaced at some stage, from a 2 cylinder to a 3. There is a stamp on the side with 1115cc, which leads me to think it's a D1000, D1101 or D1102 variant.

Many of the engine parts for these motors are the same, so I suspect (and hope) the crankshaft is too.

The part list that I have that seems to fit the engine lists a part number of 15321-23010, which is apparently superceeded by 15501-23010. There's a few hits on the web for this part number - but does anyone have any recommendations on a good place to buy. I'm in Australia, so shipping is going to hurt.

It of course begs the question - is it worth it. With the listed price of the crankshaft at ~$1400 it comes awfully close to not worthwhile in an old, grey market tractor.

Thanks.
 

ShaunRH

New member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3200
May 14, 2014
1,414
6
0
Atascadero, CA
At (I'm assuming) AUS$1400.00, you should be able to get a new engine. You might find repowering the tractor easier and more worthwhile in the long run.
 
Oh I wish, Shaun. I have so far been unable to source a crankshaft from anywhere in Australia. The $1400 I quoted was USD (from a parts store in the US), plus probably another $200 USD shipping over here. With exchange rates, that's about 2 grand in Aussie dollars. Then add another large chunk of change to get it installed in the engine. It's getting pricey.

I would certainly love to find a replacement engine, even if it costs a little more, I think it would be worth it. The engine ran for probably 20 seconds after the crankshaft broke - who knows if it has done more damage that will just blow the engine again later.

So my question to you would be:

1) Where would I look for a replacement engine? I can't find any direct replacements (refurbs on the same engine model) in my online searches, and I have no idea where to look.

2) I see that Kubota now produces a D1105 - would this be compatible as a replacement for the D1101?

So many questions, I think this one could take a while to sort out the best solution.

Cheers!
 

ShaunRH

New member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3200
May 14, 2014
1,414
6
0
Atascadero, CA
Well, you can keep looking about for a new crank and install a rebuild kit for $2300 or get a new 1105 for $3300. It should work as far as power goes but there may be fabrication and other work to do the repower, so that's dicey. You'd have to get the specs for mounts, bell housing bolt patterns, etc. to see if it was a direct replacement.