What to get and what not to get from dealer when purchasing tractor

Kubota does not have a 3rd function that I am aware of for the std L models.

You will probably end up with a WR Long 3rd function kit which is fine and sometimes even recommended for Grand Ls over the factory Kubota 3rd function kits used on the Grand Ls.

As far as the rear remotes, a 2 valve set, 1 with the float feature is $1322.

A 3 valve set with 2 of them having the float feature is $1926.

The loader package is pertaining to if you want skid steer quick attach which you do, so the 2 lever style coupler is what you want. Double check with your dealer though.

Clover13 said:

Good input. What is the 3rd hydraulic use case (sorry I'm new to tractors)? My plan was to get the 2 valves added and the top and tilt to use with a box blade for the exact reasons you mentioned, but I couldn't think of how I'd use the 3rd valve.

And what determines which type you get?
pick a total of 3 from the following items
SPRING CENTER VALVE SECTION PNF
FLOAT DETENT VALVE
SELF CANCELLING DETENT VALVE SECTION PNF

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First off, float detent valves for the top & tilt cylinders. The float function increases your capabilities.

Lots of implements can have hydraulics in place of manual adjustments. Once a person uses hydraulic adjustments, they realize how much easier and efficient they are and like to implement that ease and efficiency to other aspects of their work.

You mentioned a box blade, yes box blades with hydraulic actuated rippers are big money, but depending on how much and type of box blading you will be doing sort of dictates the need or not.

Another implement that has already been mentioned is a rear blade. It is very nice to be able to change the angle of a rear blade on the move let alone simply not having to stop and get off-on the tractor. The list goes on and on.

I was looking at your pkg with the trailer. Don't even think about an 18 footer,. I have a 20 ft & after getting my L3301-FEL-shredder loaded I have nearly 4 ft hanging off. May have to go back to a long gooseneck, but am retired & thrifty , AKA CHEAPSKATE.
I'm in the manual 3pt adjustment group simply cause I don't make a living using my tractor. I can adjust it from the seat & yes sometimes have to step off & finesse the angle.

I'm not US based (don't use that pricing tool), and don't personally have those options. So take everything I say with a fair pinch of salt.

The rear remote hydraulic valves are for rear implements. You have the choice of 1, 2 or 3 pairs of valves. 1 pair of valves lets you run one "circuit" - one valve is in and one out. So you can choose to run 1, 2 or 3 functions on the rear. If for example you were running a rear blade, you might have a tilt and an angle, which would be 2 functions.

For the 2nd and 3rd circuits, you then get to choose whether or not to have float. I'll talk about float with reference to a front end loader, which is where I'm familiar with it. On a FEL you can have your stick in the middle - which is locked - the loader stays where it is. If you have your loader on the ground and drive forward into a rise, it'll dig into that rise as the loader can't rise over it. You can push forward on the stick which lowers the loader (positive pressure down - once it hits the ground it'll start to lift your wheels off the ground if you don't stop pushing forward), or pull back, which lifts the loader up until it hits the top. If you push the lever all the way forward, it clicks into place (detent), and what it does is basically disconnect the hydraulics and let things "float", it lets the loader drift down till it hits the ground, and as you drive forward your loader will contour follow. That's useful for example for scraping snow off your driveway without digging big chunks out of your paving - you curl your bucket very slightly back so it doesn't dig in (about half an inch or less up at the front), and set the bucket to float up/down. It'll scrape along the driveway without biting in and without you having to adjust it.

As for what you'd use float for on a rear remote, I have no idea. Perhaps there's some use in your top link floating to somehow terrain follow with a box blade? I'd guess that you need to know what implements you're putting on before you know whether you need it. If it doesn't cost much more, then I guess I'd be inclined to get it just in case. Looks to me like the float version costs $42 more....so depends whether that's a lot of money for you.

Also looks like the first valve costs about $700, the second and third about $600 each. Again, depends on how tight money is for you, but if you don't know what you'd use them for then I'd question whether you need more than one.

On the loader, the heavy duty loader with 2 lever style coupler I think is the skid steer quick attach.

I can't see any option for a third function kit. A quick google doesn't show up a Kubota one, but there's a Land Pride 3rd function kit for the L2501. I'd guess that means it's not available as a Kubota option, it's after market. Of course Land Pride is now owned by Kubota, so it's still all in the family. The BX only just got a factory 3rd function option, I think the B might not have one, so it wouldn't surprise me if the L2501 didn't have one. So you'll have to talk to your dealer about one if you want it fitted. Looks like it costs $730 from Messicks: https://www.messicks.com/part/380-152a/kubota-std-l-series-third-function-valve-kit. There'd be installation costs as well I'd expect.

For the guy who's looking at a grapple and forks....you don't need rear remotes at all for that, you need a 3rd function kit. For a bunch of this stuff you're really better talking to your chosen dealer, because they'll know exactly what you need, they'll explain it, and to be honest will probably talk you out of some of the things people on here will tell you you need. They'll be able to better understand what you're trying to do, and show you how it works on the tractors that are there - it'll all make much more sense then.

Dunbar said:

Thanks Paul!

That is a great explanation of how to use the Float function. The dealer called and we discussed remotes. The 'Build my Kubota' web function is a bit misleading. They have grouped 'First Position Valve Kit W/Loader' into the Rear Remote section. Therefore the Plus 2nd gets you only one rear remote. The Plus 3rd gets you 2 rear remotes. On valve type, he's going to check with his service department to see if there are any attachments that can take advantage of Float Detent Valves on both rear remotes, or if one is all that it's possible to use. I think there must be options for both rears to have float function and if I never use them, a future owner of my tractor might.

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Please let us know what your dealer says! Very odd the first rear remote is actually for the front FEL attachment (such as a grapple). I'm just trying to figure out what valve types I would need for a top and tilt install for a box blade, and maybe adding other implements later such a rotary cutter, blade, rake, etc.

Dunbar said:

One dealer told me add $1200 for third function and $900/ rear remote so $1800 for both rear. Just add $3000 to the sale price and $54/ month to the 60 payments at 0%.

This dealer is a high volume and told me that most of their compact and sub-compacts go out the door without rear remotes. Bigger tractors have them more commonly. He said if your doing precision dirt work then yes it's a good idea and of course the grapple 3rd function makes sense too.

He recommended not getting a stump grinder. He said they have seen more than one broken PTO shaft and just heavy wear in general to the tractor. Said hire it out.

$3k for future proofing the tractor to be able to run implements that I don't own. I think I'll be talking to MountainView about their T&T and just learn how to run a box blade with that functionality from the get go. I think I'll be placing an order for AE's Wicket Root Grapple sooner than later to assist in clean up after the Hydro-axe decimated the jungle. I can also reach over the fence line to haul vines down off the big trees so they don't die.

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FWIW my dealer quoted $925 for first rear remote, $380 for second rear remote, and $653 for the TnT (not sure which one it is since it's not Kubota OEM). My front valve was included in my base price, so it's not itemized.

I still don't know what "type" of valves are best for TnT or box blade work. Agree the front valve is a good idea for grappler work, that is why I'm getting one. Or if you ever wanted to put a snow blade on the front and be able to angle it.

Adding to this thread, since I did the research.

A top and tilt kit is described well enough here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pYO7oz5U04

Basically the "top" allows you to hydraulically adjust your top link. On a rear blade this will angle it forwards or backwards. If you were pulling what we in NZ call a mole plow (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA-oJEgvdxU), then shortening the toplink will cause the mole to drive further into the ground, lengthening the top link will cause it to drive up towards the surface. For that kind of equipment hydraulic adjustment would be essential - you'll need to adjust the top link up and down on the end of each pass.....it's not practical to stop and adjust for that.

The "tilt" goes on your right side 3ph, and adjusts the angle. So it lifts the right independently of your left, on a rear blade it'd let you put camber on the road you're grading.

He also gives some examples of where float might be useful.

Main takeaway for me - if you want both top and tilt, then you need two remotes.

He also notes (although not clearly) that if you don't have a cab you can just reach back and adjust your top link, but if you have a cab then you have to get out and walk around....so that could be a decision point.

PaulL said:

Adding to this thread, since I did the research.

A top and tilt kit is described well enough here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pYO7oz5U04

Basically the "top" allows you to hydraulically adjust your top link. On a rear blade this will angle it forwards or backwards. If you were pulling what we in NZ call a mole plow, then angling it will cause it to drive further into the ground, or pull up towards the surface. For this kind of equipment hydraulic adjustment would be essential - you'll need to adjust the top link up and down on the end of each pass.....it's not practical to stop and adjust for that.

The "tilt" goes on your right side 3ph, and adjusts the angle. So it lifts the right independently of your left, on a rear blade it'd let you put camber on the road you're grading.

He also gives some examples of where float might be useful.

Main takeaway for me - if you want both top and tilt, then you need two remotes.

He also notes (although not clearly) that if you don't have a cab you can just reach back and adjust your top link, but if you have a cab then you have to get out and walk around....so that could be a decision point.

Click to expand...

That watched that video earlier today! Did help out some, but I'm still confused as to what valve types are used for what implements. The only gist I got was float is good when you want an implement to "ride with the contours" of the land and I think it's the self cancelling that is good for something like a log splitter whereas it hits it's full extension and then resets back to it's original position. Other than that I'm pretty confused as to what to select.

On the B2650 for example, they give two options:

1. DETENT VALVE (NON-SELF-CANCELING)
2. FLOAT DETENT VALVE

Messick's has a good page on rear remotes/valves here: https://www.messicks.com/school/understanding-rear-hydraulic-remotes

He talks about the self cancelling, but I'm not sure what the non-self-cancelling does, other than it doesn't reset to a neutral position. I'm assuming it just can't float?

I'm also assuming the float detent is just an option to float if you so choose, otherwise you can use it as a non-self-cancelling valve?

It's pretty confusing for someone who has never owned a tractor before...

Clover13 said:

That watched that video earlier today! Did help out some, but I'm still confused as to what valve types are used for what implements. The only gist I got was float is good when you want an implement to "ride with the contours" of the land and I think it's the self cancelling that is good for something like a log splitter whereas it hits it's full extension and then resets back to it's original position. Other than that I'm pretty confused as to what to select.

On the B2650 for example, they give two options:

1. DETENT VALVE (NON-SELF-CANCELING)
2. FLOAT DETENT VALVE

Messick's has a good page on rear remotes/valves here: https://www.messicks.com/school/understanding-rear-hydraulic-remotes

He talks about the self cancelling, but I'm not sure what the non-self-cancelling does, other than it doesn't reset to a neutral position. I'm assuming it just can't float?

I'm also assuming the float detent is just an option to float if you so choose, otherwise you can use it as a non-self-cancelling valve?

It's pretty confusing for someone who has never owned a tractor before...

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You can get 3 rear remote valves. You do not have a choice of type of valve for the first valve. It is what it is. Probably a spring return to center valve. A simple 3 position valve typically used to operate most implement cylinders.

A float detent valve works exactly like the loader lift valve. Pull back and the cylinder rod moves, let go of the lever and it springs back to the center closing the valve, rod stops moving. Push forward and the cylinder rod moves, let go and the lever springs back to the closed position. Putting the valve into float position you simply push the lever forward past the power range then into the detent. The lever stays there and the valve is in float mode. Pull the lever out of detent and let go of the lever and the valve springs back to center and the close position.

The other available valve for the std L series is a detent valve. This valve is intended to be used for an implement that requires a constant flow such as a log splitter. There is a detent at the end of the valve stroke to keep the valve in the open position. The lever does not spring back to center, but has to be put there. This type of valve can be used to operate a cylinder, but is not recommended simply because there is no spring return to the center closed position. The lever has to be manually put in the closed position.

As far as where float would be used. It is great on a hydraulic top link when using a 3pt mower. While most of todays mowers already have some sort of hitch that allows for the rear of the mower to move up & down some, it often will not allow the mower to move enough to allow for mowing banks down to a pond or simply steeper slopes on the property.

It is ideal to put the side link in float mode when final grading-smoothing a driveway or road or driveway to the road intersection. This allows the implement to follow the contour of the road instead of the tractor so then the implement does not either dig into the ground or raise up off the ground leaving a pile of dirt as the crown of the road changes from one to the other.

Another time is when plowing snow or even snow blowing. Again this allows for the implement to follow the contour of the ground as it changes vs following the tractor.

These are just a few, there are others depending on exactly what your needs might be.

I hope that some of this helps.

Does a small L have enough flow to run a log splitter? I would have thought that you'd want a bigger hydraulic pump for implements that take constant flow, and therefore that you probably don't want the detent type valves on that tractor. If that helps in decision making.

PaulL said:

Does a small L have enough flow to run a log splitter? I would have thought that you'd want a bigger hydraulic pump for implements that take constant flow, and therefore that you probably don't want the detent type valves on that tractor. If that helps in decision making.

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Some people have a lot of patience. In reality, not many smaller tractors have enough GPM flow to run a log splitter efficiently.

I think unless you have a big tractor (50hp plus) you'd be better with a standalone wood splitter. They don't cost much more than a PTO one, and would cycle faster. And then you can use your tractor to bucket rounds to the splitter, or to bucket split wood away, or pull the trailer, or lift a pallet of firewood with your 3ph forks. In other words, unless your log splitter experience is going to be excellent, your tractor will be more useful not attached to the splitter.

Dunbar said:

Dealer told me that the L2501 flows 4 to 5 gallons per minute. Is that right and can it power a log splitter or a stump grinder etc? Sounds like it would take forever. I can just rent a stump grinder when the time comes and get to it.

I'm going to go ahead and contact your company for the TnT. I'm getting the LP 3rd function and 2 Kubota rear remotes, both with float valves. Is that plug and play with the TnT kit?

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As far as the T&T kit, yes plug and play. Should take 15-30 minutes to install and your in business.

If you are only getting 2 rear remotes, I don't think you can get both with the float feature. The first valve is what it is, you don't have a choice of type to the best of my knowledge. But even having just one float featured valve works. You can always switch the hoses around if-when needed.

I always recommend 2 float feature valves simply for convenience. You can get by with just one. You NEVER need to have both the top link and side link in float mode at the same time.

I personally do not have a log splitter, but going off of the many posts over the years talking about log splitters and compact tractors, my recommendation would be DON'T. You won't be a very happy camper.