Water contaminated hydraulic/trans fluid

steveInMaryland

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L35, b2710
Nov 23, 2015
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marriotsville, MD, USA
I haven't posted in a while fighting the snow and all.

I have a new problem with my L35 GST and thought I would propose my ideas here hoping for some real world solutions.

During the last storm, frozen weather specifically, I found my GST transmission failed to go into reverse. I checked the fluid thinking it was low and to my horror it was the shade of a semi chocolate milk shake and frozen.

The transmission holds 10 gallons of fluid which I would change and not think about it per se but the loader and backhoe add another 10 or so gallons that I cannot simply replace. At about $15 a quart for super udt I could easily spend a thousand dollars draining and replacing it several times.

So I have researched and for about $600 I can build a vacuum chamber cooker to release the water and recycle the fluid. I would be able to do this once a month or so until I am sure I got a handle on it. It would also be a tool like any other I would own until I am gone and some one says WTF is that and throws it away.

My question to the group is; do you have another suggestion? Not being able to get the fluid out of the loader and backhoe are really driving my thought process.

semper fi
 

Bulldog

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I guess my first question is how the water got in the system in the first place? Until you know why and fix it this will be a on going problem.

We had a filter system that you plumbed in to the piece of equipment and it would pump thru filters and then back into the machine. It worked great but the unit was several thousand dollars.

Aside from something like that about your only option is drain the fluid and flush the system with new oil and filters. If it was mine I would get some cheap fluid from like TSC, change it and run for a short while then drain and refill with SUDT2. After you drain it 2 times most of the contaminated fluid should be gone and hopefully it will be fine.

I just picked up some from TSC for $25 / 5 gallon bucket. Not the best fluid but would work to flush your system.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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I'm 100% with Bulldog on this, repair the leak, vents are #1 culprit.

Then drain and flush several times with cheap fluid then back to SUDT or do like I do and go Mystik JT5, works very well in all conditions with the GST.
 

Tx Jim

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Be sure the hyd sump vent is open IE not plugged up so heated moisture can escape.
 

CaveCreekRay

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I am with these guys.

I do the same thing with power steering pumps. I use standard fluid to flush the system and suction out the reservoir 5-6 times. Then I do a couple flush-cycle/re-fills with factory fluid. I also do the same type service on my old BMW auto transmission every 25,000 mi. DRAIN...RE-FILL...CYCLE... REPEAT.

Find the source of the moisture. But, at the first available opportunity, get that contaminated fluid out of there. It's corroding things as we speak. And that will cost you a lot more than the fluid.

Ray
 

Daren Todd

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Good luck getting all the water out. I had a basket case sent to my shop about a month ago. Some tater head robbed the oil fill plug on top of the engine and stuffed some duct tape in there. Course, they didn't want to pay for an engine overhaul either. Just flush the water and see if I could get it running.

So first thing I did was pull the drain plug. And got about 1 gallon of water out of the oil pan along with the 11 quarts of oil it took. Disconnected the fuel filter and intake fuel line to the fuel pump. Then cranked it over for a bit. Drained oil, and oil filter. And repeated process three times before attempting to start. Put fresh oil in each time, and draining the oil filter each time.

After the third time, I changed the oil filter as well as the oil. Reprimed the fuel system and touched her off and ran her to operating temperature at medium throttle. Drained oil, and filter. Filled back up and ran for 1 hour at medium throttle. Both times running, I got huge amount to of steam out of the valve cover vent. And got more water out of the engine when the oil was drained. The second time draining after running, the oil didn't have the milky color to it. So then I changed the oil filter, and let the oil drain over night into a pan. Refilled in the morning. Pulled it outside, and let it run all day till it burned off the rest of the steam varying the rpms periodically.

Total when finished was 66 quarts of oil, and three oil filters.
 

steveInMaryland

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L35, b2710
Nov 23, 2015
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marriotsville, MD, USA
All,

I appreciated the responses to this potential tractor destroying problem.

Thanks to all but unlike poster Darren Todd I don't have the advantage of engine operating temperature in the transmission/hydraulics. On this machine there are two pumps, one for the tranny or power steering (the diagram is not clear) and one off the front of the crank shaft running the rest of the hydraulics. Neither one gets close to engine temps and the water will never boil off. I do have a intake on the bigger front pump that is about 3 feet long and I thought of coiling it with a heater coil sized line connected to the hot side of the radiator to heat it but I am not sure that's a good idea.

I cannot find the entry point of contamination but I have fix some leaks and they easily could have been the entry points. I have no way to shelter it and it is a relatively big machine to try to tarp.

So again, I am asking for a not big $$$ solution to get water out of fluid that never really runs above 150-160 degrees and cannot just be drained and replaced. The machine holds twice the fluid I can actually drain out.

I have 20 gallons of walmart hydraulic fluid to do the purge but I question whether I will get enough water out to actually feel confident the machine is not destroying itself.

This weekends high is supposed to be 7-10F so I will do my first drain and replace when we get a break.

Again, thanks to everyone. If I am being overly worried about the oil I can't get to please let me know but I am truly worried flushing won't be enough.

semper fi
 

D2Cat

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Steve, could you drain all the fluid you can in a clean container? Then let the oil set for a day and separate off any water found and recycle that oil. Maybe do it a couple of times, then use your new oil.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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So again, I am asking for a not big $$$ solution to get water out of fluid that never really runs above 150-160 degrees and cannot just be drained and replaced. The machine holds twice the fluid I can actually drain out.

I have 20 gallons of walmart hydraulic fluid to do the purge but I question whether I will get enough water out to actually feel confident the machine is not destroying itself.

Again, thanks to everyone. If I am being overly worried about the oil I can't get to please let me know but I am truly worried flushing won't be enough.
Steve,
I guess I'm not understanding why you think you can't get most if not all of the fluid out?
Pull the plugs and drain it, the little that is left in the rams will not add up to a lot. ;)

Next on your model (doesn't work on all models), if you want to flush it out, you can break the suction line, (there is one that feeds both pumps, and yes the pump behind the injection pump does the Steering, GST, and three point hydraulics) drop one suction side into new fluid bucket and out to empty bucket, or drain pan, and it will spit out whatever is in there! ;)
Secure the hoses into the bucket as it will move 17.3 gallons per minute!
Power flush!
Cycle the loader valve and rams to dump any fluid in there too.
You could also run the fluid threw it once let it separate the water out and run it threw again!
So you could use the cheap 20Gallons to flush it several times! ;)

 

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Tooljunkie

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Man, it seems like a huge undertaking to flush system. Imagine the time and cost to overhaul the things damaged by the water.

Magnetic heater to warm oil and help burn off the water? Perhaps 2 would be better.

Snowmobilers used to have this thing that laid in bottom of tank to absorb water.
Google tank snake. Probably not a good idea to operate tractor with it in resevoir but it should grab water that has settled out.
 
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steveInMaryland

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L35, b2710
Nov 23, 2015
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marriotsville, MD, USA
I am so close in thinking with Northern Idaho Wolfman it is scary.

But... If the water is completely emulsified it is my understanding it won't easily separate again without boiling/heat. That is what the oil industry does as it comes out of the ground, well not literally but you know what I mean.

That brings me back to the vacuum/cooker. Made from a 10 gallon pressure cooker (which I had reservations searching on with big brother and all) and a electronically controlled vacuum pump. In a near perfect set up I can boil the water out at about 150F. That's way too low to burn the oil. And just for good measure the wife will get a new stove she has been asking for. Don't tell her!

I have a 15 gallon drain pan with a pump to put in buckets. With the vacuum applied it should take relatively no time to de-water it and the whole process should not be all that messy.

Thoughts, anyone.

Based on all the knowledge proven to be here I am leaning at draining two to three times at one month intervals or so but would like feed back on my crazy idea.

semper fi
 

steveInMaryland

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L35, b2710
Nov 23, 2015
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marriotsville, MD, USA
I just did a quick search on tank snake and son of a gun if that doesn't seem to fit the problem.

Just how do I get it in the tranny case? Well my head will beat on that one for some hours tonight.

Thanks Tooljunkie!
 

Tooljunkie

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Doing a little research, and found parker makes a filter cart. Hydraulic shops use them. Maybe a local shop has one and could filter it for a reasonable cost.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Just drain the hydraulic fluid, heat it up (room temp) let it sit overnight, take it back out to the cold and the water will freeze in the fluid and you can fish it out! ;)
 

sheepfarmer

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Don't think this is a practical solution, but I'd be curious to know if the Mr Funnel we use to filter water out of diesel would work on UDT. It isn't very viscous.

What is the mechanism used by the filter carts?

NIW why warm up the fluid first? Will the water droplets coalesce at warmer temps?
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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What is the mechanism used by the filter carts?

NIW why warm up the fluid first? Will the water droplets coalesce at warmer temps?
They use big hydraulic filters. :D

You warm it up to thin it and help the water settle out of the oil. ;)