Brush loosened an oil plug my L2950

rbargeron · Feb 8, 2016

Shutting it down at the first bad noise was a good move. The damage may be fixable.

With an engine under load when the oil flow stops, the connecting rod bearings are usually the first parts to be damaged. The bearing shell surfaces melt and re-freeze, sticking to the crank sometimes bending the connecting rod - it gets rapidly worse. Shell halves can get out of position, climbing over the other half (called a spun bearing). That rod may break. All this takes only a few seconds.

What happens next depends completely on luck. A broken rod can punch a hole in the block - but may not. If the engine is shut down and cools off, there may be damage in one or two bearings but not all through the engine. In some cases, only a connecting rod and bearing shells are needed. The cylinder walls & rings sometimes escape unscathed.

You may not need a whole engine or even a complete rebuild kit unless the engine has a ton of hard hours on it and was due for rebuild before. It could be just a few hundred dollars, even with new piston rings.

A way to approach it would be to assess the damage with the engine block still in the tractor. Obtain and read the WSM. Take off the head, take down the front drive shaft and take off the oil pan. Take off the connecting rod caps and push the pistons out the top. Inspect to see which rods are affected. If its only one or two, the main crank bearings may not be damaged. If the crank turns ok by hand with the rods disconnected the mains are ok. Shop for parts AFTER its known what really needs replacing.

One good feature of Kubota engines is that several models use the same bearing shells and many other wear parts. these guys have decent engine part prices.

If things are worse than expected the crank will have to come out too (with engine out of the tractor) But it may not come to that.

knightgang · Feb 8, 2016

rbargeron said:
With engine under load when the oil flow stops, the connecting rod bearings are usually the first parts to be damaged. The bearing shell surfaces melt re-freeze, depositing on the cooler side of the crank - now it doesn't match the crank journal shape so it drags, sometimes bending the connecting rod - it gets rapidly worse. The shell halves can get out of position, climbing over the other half (called a spun bearing). That rod may break. All this takes only a few seconds.

All What happens next depends completely on luck. If the engine is shut down right away and cools off, there may be damage in one or two bearings but not all through the engine. In some cases, only a connecting rod and bearing shells are needed. Everything else dodges the bullet.

You very likely do not need a whole engine or even a complete rebuild kit unless the engine has a ton of hard hours on it. I'd hazard a guess that it won't need that many parts - maybe just a couple hundred dollars worth.

A way to approach it is to assess the damage with the engine block still in the tractor. Take off the head, take down the front drive shaft and take off the oil pan. Take off the connecting rod caps to see which ones are affected. If its only one or two, the large main bearings are likely ok. The crank journals can sometimes be hand polished back to usable condition.

If things are worse than expected the crank will have to come out - (with tractor split to take out the engine block) But that may not be necessary. If the crank turns easy by hand when the rods are disconnected the mains are likely ok. Shop for parts AFTER its known what really needs replacing.

One good feature of Kubota engines is that several models use the same bearing shells and many other wear parts. these guys have decent engine part prices.

Good luck, Dick B

I don't want to count chickens before they hatch, so I am planning and pricing for the worst. Nothing will be ordered until a further diagnosis is made.

Although, I am hoping that things happened exactly as you described and that the biggest issue that I have to look at is the rod bearings. That would be an easy fix.

One thing I noticed this morning is that with the tunnel in the oil pan, the plug that fell out was on the opposite side from the oil pickup. That could be a factor that may have saved some internal components.

I finally get her home tonight but it may be tomorrow before I get the pan off to start accessing.

Grouse Feathers · Feb 8, 2016

knightgang

Have you closely inspected the oil pan drain threads? If someone over torqued the plug, the oil pan threads could easily have been damaged. The damage could have been contained with some sealant or tape on the threads. Bumping a plug with damaged pan threads with a stick could easily dislodge the plug.

rbargeron · Feb 8, 2016

knightgang said:
.......I am hoping. .the biggest issue..is the rod bearings. That would be an easy fix....

My son has a Thomas skid-steer with a Kubota engine we took out and apart for valves and rings a few months back. The job is still relatively fresh in what's left of my memory. Let me know if I can be any help.

Grouse Feathers · Feb 8, 2016

chieffan said:
Grouse Feathers, if you had ever been in the situation to wear hearing aids you would know what your talking about. Aids are Not a "poor supplement" for the hearing one has. They increase the tone that one has a problem hearing and levels the playing field. They are designed for NORMAL sounds, and being around tractors, etc. is not a normal sound. It is amplified to the point of being unbearable. Even an air compressor running if I walk by is way to loud. That is why my remote has an OFF setting and the aids become ear plugs, basically. Don' need any muffs, etc.

Chieffan

I posted a reply under "Off Topic" to keep from hijacking this thread.

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?p=172237#post172237

knightgang · Feb 8, 2016

Grouse Feathers said:
knightgang

Have you closely inspected the oil pan drain threads? If someone over torqued the plug, the oil pan threads could easily have been damaged. The damage could have been contained with some sealant or tape on the threads. Bumping a plug with damaged pan threads with a stick could easily dislodge the plug.

No, other than to say that a Replacement plug from the auto parts store went in pretty easy and seemed to snug up. Although t had the rubbery plastic sealing washer on it, so it did not seem to get extremely tight. At the time I was trying to get it to hold oil to see if it would refire and run and what it sounded like.

I can say that the other oil plug (I assume was the OEM) had a large head on it,, much more profile off form the oil pan than I would have thought would be there. My trucks oil plugs have very little profile, they don't even fill the depth of a box end wrench. The heads on this plug was twice as tall.

When I pull the pan I will check the threads. Might make sense.

North Idaho Wolfman · Feb 8, 2016

rbargeron said:
You may not need a whole engine or even a complete rebuild kit unless the engine has a ton of hard hours on it and was due for rebuild before.

knightgang said:
3500 hrs. on it and did not leak a drop of oil.

The above statement was why I said that most likely he was better off to just rebuild the whole engine.

And I could believe that the plug got hit with a stick or stump, and either spun and vibrated out or knocked out (more likely), on that model the plugs have big heads and do stick way out in the open.
I find it odd (but not impossible) that you were able to find a plug at the local auto parts store that fit it, it's just that Kubota's have such odd threads. It might be that you just found one close and it's fitting but replace it with an OEM plug when you fix it!

knightgang · Feb 8, 2016

I took the remaining plug to the parts store and put it in the thread checker. It is a M12x1.25 thread. Not the same head design, but a smaller head and smoother than OEM. It is a flange bolt like a cars oil pan plug and it has a plastic seal. I am sure that if I keep this design that I will change it to a copper washer for the seal. But it screwed right in.

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knightgang · Feb 8, 2016

North Idaho Wolfman said:
but replace it with an OEM plug when you fix it!

And a skid plate to keep this from happening again. Last thing I need is for it to happen a second time, and it could be while one of my kids or wife is doing the work.

chieffan · Feb 8, 2016

North Idaho Wolfman said:
No, there is no engine that will replace it that is the same HP, you can get close 29hp with a D1402-DI-AE
There really shouldn't be any need to replace it, just rebuild the one you have, it will probably be cheaper as D1402-DI-AE or other D1402 variations are expensive 3.5K range.
Also if you do go looking at other engines, need to be real picky, details matter, as they made several versions of the D1402 one huge difference is a DI (Direct Injection) to IDI (Indirect Injection), and there were other older D1402's that were lower HP and not set up the same.
The Letters mean a lot in the make up of the motor, Like you said "V1462", it's not a V engine (that's a 4 cylinder) it a D engine (3 cylider) and yes they do make some variations like a V1402 not the motor you want.
the letters after the numbers are important too, they are variations into the build of the engine internally and externally, a D1402-A will not work where you need a D1402-DI-AE.

Chieffan,
That's not true, there are 100's of thousands of parts for Kubota's from Non Kubota manufactures, it's just not available in this case, because it's a very odd engine size, with limited production.

May be out your way but in my area no one has anything for Kubota. NAPA and Baldwin dealer did have the filter. A couple auto parts places had no listing for Kubota. One even called a couple of their distributors and nothing for Kubota. The big diesel place that rebuilt my injectors had parts because they were Bosh Injectors but the seals had to be hand fitted. I have 3 dealers in this area one is 45 miles, the second in close to 85 and the other is about 90 miles. I will check out that link in your post and see how that works out but that would involve shipping half way across the country.

D2Cat · Feb 9, 2016

Knightgang, I don't know if this is real or a scam, or if it is even still for sale....But you find something like this and you'd be ahead of rebuilding that engine. You'd also have backup parts.

That tractor is a rare vintage. I tried to find an engine for one a couple of months ago.....not a used one to be found.

Do a search of "allofcraigsdotcom" and you'll find listings, but the are long gone, even if listed only a few days ago.

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/grd/5403351903.html

knightgang · Feb 9, 2016

D2Cat said:
Knightgang, I don't know if this is real or a scam, or if it is even still for sale....But you find something like this and you'd be ahead of rebuilding that engine. You'd also have backup parts.

That tractor is a rare vintage. I tried to find an engine for one a couple of months ago.....not a used one to be found.

Do a search of "allofcraigsdotcom" and you'll find listings, but the are long gone, even if listed only a few days ago.

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/grd/5403351903.html

Probably a scam. Your listing is from Pittsburg. I found the same tractor listed 30 miles from me. Slightly different description and $35 more for the price. Same Picture.

I inquired, but I have called out over a dozen scammers on CL in the last 6 months.

North Idaho Wolfman · Feb 9, 2016

Engine specs:

knightgang · Feb 9, 2016

knightgang said:
Probably a scam. Your listing is from Pittsburg. I found the same tractor listed 30 miles from me. Slightly different description and $35 more for the price. Same Picture.

I inquired, but I have called out over a dozen scammers on CL in the last 6 months.

Definitely a scam. The response was:

"Sorry for the late reply. I posted this add for my aunt. Her name is Shannon and you can reach her at: shandby72 at gmail dot com and she will send you all the detail for the 1993 Kubota Tractor"

This is always the email or text back when it is a scam attempt. I got the same message when inquiring about a Backhoe that was supposed to be in Kansas about 4 months ago. Turned out is was old pictures from a listing a year prior of legitimate listing that had sold and the pictures were recycled for the scam.

knightgang · Feb 12, 2016

I got under the tractor today to start taking it down to find out what is hurt in the engine. So I found the roll pin in the coupler at the front of the drive shaft and got it out; however I cannot figure out how to get the rear of the drive shaft loose? What am I missing?

rbargeron · Feb 12, 2016

There's a pin thru the end groove of the tube at the rear. Slide the tube forward. There's another coupling inside. Slide the shaft forward to disengage the rear coupling.

knightgang · Feb 12, 2016

Thanks, I saw that long roll pin, but was being a bear to get out I was not sure I was doing the right thing

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rbargeron · Feb 12, 2016

It might only go out toward the right side of the tractor (don't remember)

knightgang · Feb 12, 2016

That may be, I was going to the left side and it slid about an eighth of an inch and stopped. I did not want to screw it up so I stopped.

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knightgang · Feb 17, 2016

So, how about I finally get around to pulling the oil pan to see how the bottom end looks and start assessing the damage and I get another surprise.....

Seems that two bolts at the very front of the oil pan are blocked by the input shaft housing on on the front axle. So I assume the only way to get to these is to lift the front of the tractor off of the front axle enough to gain clearance to remove the bolts...

Is there any other way?

Brush loosened an oil plug my L2950

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