B6100E engine rebuild?

MikeHall

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Jan 22, 2015
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Leesburg GA
I purchased an older 6100 which clearly is going to need a rebuild or at minimum a set of rings. The tractor starts up nice and easy but it is pouring out white smoke from the exhaust and through the oil fill cap when i remove it while the engine is running. Its a little odd that it starts so easy with such bad blow by but oh well. The engine also has a little injector knock or that is what I assume it is and it may be from one of the injector lines leaking pretty darn bad. I tried to see if the fittings would tighten any but they were all nice and tight. Depending on the condition of the cylinder walls, would it be possible to just replace the rings? Is this something that can be done while the engine is still in the tractor? Maybe remove oil pan, head and pull piston/rod out the top then reinstall same way? Any advice on what to do for this little tractor would be great.

Thanks
Mike
 

mickeyd

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2014 L3200 DT w/LA524 FEL, 2019 Kubota Z121S w/ 48" Pro Dec, TG1860G w/RCK54TG
Mar 21, 2014
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Guin, AL
Welcome to the forum from Alabama.
 

Grumpy560

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1979 B7100D 4WD with B219 loader/ 3 G6200 HST mowers/ JD 310D 4X4 backhoe
Oct 18, 2014
178
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Estill Springs TN,
Your description of an injector knock with leaking lines sounds similar to the symptoms I had with my B7100 when I bought it only I had zero blo-by from the engine. Mine turned out to be a spun Rod bearing. I replaced the entire engine.

You need to do a compression test first to determine what's causing blo-by on your engine. It could be rings, cracked/damaged piston, valve guide seals or a number of other things.

Compression test first then go from there.
 
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MikeHall

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Jan 22, 2015
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Leesburg GA
I am trying to tack down a compression tester I can borrow. So the so called injector knock could be a spun bearing? The tractor had been sitting over a year and had been run very little after a kabota dealer had installed a new oil plug in the cam. I called and talked with them and they stated the tractor did not have the issues It has now when it left them so who knows. The oil pressure gauge that is now on the tractor shows 60psi with the engine running ad moderate RPM. BTW, the engine smooths our and the knock stocks if you run the RPMs up a little but it still smokes pretty bad. Its smokes as if it was designed to produce a thick smoke screen. hahaha
 

ShaunBlake

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B6100D; B219; Piranha bar; Hodge stabilizers; Filled Ag rears; R322T w/48" deck
Dec 21, 2014
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Sugar Hill -- next door to Buford, GA
Welcome, Mike. You picked a great forum for expert advice! Sadly, not from me, but I've read some of the experts' comments about problems OOPS! ISSUES such as yours. You certainly can do considerable rebuilding in the tractor, especially if it's just oil pan and head that you need to remove (as opposed to having to turn the crank, for example -- there is a point of diminishing returns that varies with attachments and such).

You surely must have an injector issue, but the blow-by may indicate more ... err... COMPLICATIONS. <sad smile>

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you if you'll keep us posted on what you find, and with pics if possible.

Cheers!
-Shaun-
 

MikeHall

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Jan 22, 2015
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Leesburg GA
Problem is a get addicted to such kinds of forums as these and will end up owning 11 of these tractors if I am not careful. :D

It seem the D750 engine is a little more common than the D650B which is what I have. Would there be any issue with just swapping a D750 into my tractor? My B6100 and B7100 engines look identical and I assume one has the 650 and the other the 750 as they should.

Mike
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
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Mike, go all the way and jump up to a D950, and yes it will fit! :D

Sounds to me that you have an injector issue.
Quick check, start it and crack the fitting on top of each injector one at a time, if it's got a bad (flooding) injector, the smoke and knock will reduce or eliminate when you open the line and quit feeding it fuel. ;)

With a flooding injector it will have blow by as the rings can't seal. :cool:
 

MikeHall

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Jan 22, 2015
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Leesburg GA
I did not get the results i wanted by cracking the lines on the injectors but i did find that one injector was not tight at all in the head. I found that when I cracked the injector lines just a little the engine would die. One of the injector lines coming out of the fuel pump is leaking bad and I believe it is the middle injector which is the one that did not really change much when I cracked the line at the injector. Here is a short video of it running.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHYk2qGQWl8
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Jun 9, 2013
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Sandpoint, ID
Yea it's not sounding happy.
I'm thinking a full rebuild might be the best thing for it.
Could possibly be bad compression leading to bad fire on one piston.
I would swap injectors and see if the problem moves with the injector, if it does then replace or get all three injectors rebuilt.
If it doesn't move with the injector, pull the valve cover and check for a loose rocker arms
After that your going to need to rebuild or replace. ;)
 

MikeHall

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Jan 22, 2015
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Leesburg GA
Where might I find a engine repair manual or details on rebuild specs? Its about time to get this engine rebuilt now but, i need some guidance via a manual. :D
 

Apogee

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B6100, B7100, B8200, B9200, G4200, L175, L35
Jan 22, 2012
518
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16
Tacoma, WA
Mike,

There might be a lower end knock but it's really tough to tell. Also, you have really good oil pressure which wouldn't usually be the case if you had a bad bearing.

That sounds (and looks) more like a bad injector to me. I agree with Grumpy that I'd compression check the cylinders. Harbor Freight sells an inexpensive diesel compression test set with a Kubota adapter.

The only other thought that comes to mind would be a blown head gasket or possibly a cracked head. Have you removed the radiator cap while it's running to check for bubbling? A blown head gasket or cracked head will usually bubble back through the radiator.

I'm guessing you have a bad injector that is washing the cylinder walls like Wolf stated earlier. I'd send all three injectors for rebuild (or just buy new ones) and I'm betting you will be good to go.

You can pull the injectors, hook the lines back up, and crank the engine while observing the spray pattern and also looking for leakage. If any of them leak or shoot a stream, you've found your problem. MAKE SURE NOT TO BE NEAR THEM WHEN THEY ARE SPRAYING. IT WILL PENETRATE YOUR SKIN AND MAKE YOU VERY SICK!

Finally, how old is the fuel? Depending on what is in the tank, it could be causing some of the smoke issue as well.

Honestly, I don't think there is anything requiring a major rebuild. Since it's been sitting, I'd check in the injector spray patterns, change the fuel (and oil) and run it.

Regarding manuals, look here:

http://kubotabooks.com/

Good luck!

Steve
 
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MikeHall

New member
Jan 22, 2015
23
1
0
Leesburg GA
Steve, I did as you said and hooked the injectors up to the lines and they all seemed to have a nice spray pattern. It was a good mist in a cone pattern for sure. I checked to see if there was any bubbling in the radiator and there was no bubbles but you could see some disturbance which I assume is from the water pump or agitator, whatever it is on these engines. There is a ton of white smoke and of course the knock which I agree would sound like injector knock. This is one thing that may be a problem. The injector lines all leak bad at the pump and I may be wrong but i think the little fuel pump is leaking too. All those connections need new orings and crush washers. Would leaking injector lines possibly cause such? Only at High RPM does the engine smooth out and sound normal yet still smokes like crazy. Yes oil pressure is good according to gauge.
 

Apogee

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B6100, B7100, B8200, B9200, G4200, L175, L35
Jan 22, 2012
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Mike,

I believe that engine is thermosyphon cooled (no water pump) so there should be no agitation in the radiator. If you're seeing movement, I'm guessing it's from air bubbles making their way through the cooling system. What appears to be a water pump is actually what Kubota refers to as a "dynamo" and is actually the alternator for the charging system. You can be sure of this by locating the charging wires that come out of it behind the fan pulley. No water pump would have a charging circuit built into it.

You can go to the kubota.com site > parts tab > illustrated parts list > accept the agreement > and input B6100 into the search box. From there choose "Open" for the "E" model. Then on the left side of the box that opens, choose "Engine" > "Dynamo group" you'll see what I'm talking about.

I would suggest pulling the head to see what you find. If you get lucky, it might just be a blown head gasket. Unfortunately, the thermosyphon engines tend to overheat if folks don't keep the radiator clean. Often it would result in the head cracking. No way to tell until you take it apart, but I'm suspicious because you mention also having white smoke/moisture in the valve cover area.

You will be able to tell which cylinder is burning the water because it will be very clean.

Regarding the injection pump leaks, I don't believe it would cause the issues you're experiencing. Yes I'd replace the o-rings and crush washers, but based on your spray pattern test, I doubt the leaks are enough to cause the knock. It would have to be leaking to the point of significantly dropping the pressure to the injector for it to potentially cause a knock (and then I don't even know for sure if it would). If that were happening, you'd have diesel spraying from the pump area and going everywhere. It doesn't look to me like that is the case.

Finally, yes it looks like you might be in for a rebuild. You may just be able to replace the head gasket and go, but I'd take the head to a machine shop while its off and have it pressure tested and checked for cracks. Depending on how many hours are on it, might be worth having a valve job and surface done at the same time.

Then you get into the balancing act of deciding whether or not to go through it while you're at it or just fix what you find. That's your call to make. I can tell you that D750 engines tend to go through eBay for about $1000 - $1200 so that will give you an idea of potentially what you're in for.

Finally, grainfarmer has new and used heads for your engine. (no I'm not affiliated with him in any way) If your head is bad, you may just be able to slap a replacement on it and go. http://www.grainfarmer.com/kubota-engines.html

It's hard to know the best option because we don't know how much blow-by the engine has. Hence, it would be a bit of a gamble on your part. That being said, if the engine is not worn out it could very easily be just fine. Worst case, you end up tightening up the top end and figuring out the bottom end is too worn and you end up going through the bottom end later. If it's anticipated at the beginning then any potential curve-balls would easier to deal with. Yeah you waste a head gasket and some time, but the work done to the cylinder head would not be wasted. The only other curve-ball is if it would have been cheaper to just replace the whole engine instead from one of the eBay importers. That would also give you the advantage of being able to up the horsepower while you're at it.

It's a cool little tractor and will be very handy once fixed.

Sorry for the bad news. I hope I'm wrong!

Steve
 
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