Omg,what went wrong,filter ruptured

al m · Dec 12, 2017

I'm a little heartsick,and not sure if I have destroyed my tractor,or what's the cause. Anyone who follows this board prob knows I rebuilt the hst on my tractor,and have around 20 hrs of flawless operation since. Also added a loader,put a good 5 hrs without a problem. Then tonight. Snowed all day. Got home from work,started the tractor,lifted the bucket,then proceeded to clean the snow off the tractor. Then climbed into to seat and tried to move. Nothing. When's and got a flash light,looked to make sure it was in gear,yup,it's in low.then the heartbreaker,notice a large puddle of oil,shut her down,investigate,crawl underneath,lots of oil but shaft seals and suction lines are dry,seems to be coming from above. Take top cover off ,the hst filter is rupture at the rolled seam.
What gives? Did I hook up the loader valve wrong puttin undo pressure into the hst? Did I do something inherently wrong rebuilding the hst? Is this due to me using cheap store brand oil( plans was to swap it after 50 hours and move to Kubota synthetic) or was the filter flawed! Hope my tranny isn't cooked!

1970cs · Dec 12, 2017

Filter and oil brands and weight would help!

Pat

al m · Dec 12, 2017

1970cs said:
Filter and oil brands and weight would help!

Pat

Kubota filter,as specified,Wally world trans / hydraulic oil,meets Kubota specs

85Hokie · Dec 12, 2017

al m said:
Kubota filter,as specified,Wally world trans / hydraulic oil,meets Kubota specs

that last part hurt a bit - but then again, the machine is 25 years old +,
have any idea of the internal pressure after the rebuild?

Not sure it is toast just yet - but I would fill it up with oil, new K filter and do a pressure test, maybe the relief valve aint doing the job??

al m · Dec 12, 2017

85Hokie said:
that last part hurt a bit - but then again, the machine is 25 years old +,
have any idea of the internal pressure after the rebuild?

Not sure it is toast just yet - but I would fill it up with oil, new K filter and do a pressure test, maybe the relief valve aint doing the job??

I'm not sure it is toast either,want to focus on the root cause of the failure,correct that rather than blowing a second filter and spilling even more,and more expensive oil.
Would like to explore the plumbing of the valve,specifically,where the out and power beyond lines go,did I cross them,and did that cause the rupture

al m · Dec 12, 2017

After milling it over in my mind,I am thinking I crossed the out and power beyond lines off the loader valve,and pressurized the hst,if so,at least it was getting oil,hope someone cane chime in with the proper plumbing senario

North Idaho Wolfman · Dec 13, 2017

Did the three point work?
If it did, then the loader valve is correct.
You really cant pressurize the HST from the hydraulic system.
The line out of the top of the HST is an low pressure / suction line from the cooler on the front of the tractor.

I would first try changing the Filter, it's not the first time there has be a bad one out there that failed.
If it does it again then I would be looking at the relief valves in the HST unit.

100 td · Dec 13, 2017

I can't remember the tractor, but someone here fairly recently was having a similar problem, pressurizing the filter, a small valve was stuck or fitted the wrong way, not saying it isn't what NIW has said, but do a search and see if you can come up with a similar thread, I don't have time now.

100 td · Dec 13, 2017

No idea if it's related or your tranny is similar or has this, there is another thread by this poster, this is the outcome
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33372&highlight=blow+filter

al m · Dec 13, 2017

Thanks for the replies,and yes the three point was working as it should,as was the power steering and the loader. I would still like a clear diagram of what line goes where. From memory the front port on the devertor block goes to the port marked" in"on the loader valve and the "out" port is connected to the back port of the devertor block, there is a unmarked port on the valve body that is connected by a adaptor to the fill on the tranny. This is how it was.plumbed on the donor tractor,but i am wondering,if the un marked port is power beyond,should it not be connected to the back side of the devertor block, and the "out " port dumping into the tranny(resavoir)

ThisIsNotaStep · Dec 14, 2017

something doesn't sound right, if you have that much time on the rebuild already .. I buy my TDF at the same Wallnut as you, 7 years now, no issues. Yesterday was our first really cold day, any signs of water in the oil? Maybe a line or valve froze? I feel for you

North Idaho Wolfman · Dec 14, 2017

al m said:
Thanks for the replies,and yes the three point was working as it should,as was the power steering and the loader. I would still like a clear diagram of what line goes where. From memory the front port on the devertor block goes to the port marked" in"on the loader valve and the "out" port is connected to the back port of the devertor block, there is a unmarked port on the valve body that is connected by a adaptor to the fill on the tranny. This is how it was.plumbed on the donor tractor,but i am wondering,if the un marked port is power beyond,should it not be connected to the back side of the devertor block, and the "out " port dumping into the tranny(resavoir)

You have it hooked up right, because if it wasn't either the three point or the FEL wouldn't work.
The three point relies on the PB being set to it, and the IN and Tank on the valve for the FEL require they be right or it wouldn't operate.

al m · Dec 14, 2017

Went to the Kubota dealer and picked up a new filter and some oil. Put on the filter and topped up the oil,took 4 litres. All is well,everything is working as it should.
The Kubota dealer echoed Wolfmans words,three point works,it all as it should be. Out of curiousity I tried lifting the 3 point and the loader at the same time,and that works.
Big sigh of relief !
Thanks to all who responded,or shared my concerns,reply or not.
I do plan a complete oil change,just too cold now

torch · Dec 14, 2017

al m said:
Out of curiousity I tried lifting the 3 point and the loader at the same time,and that works.

Wait, what?

You can lift the 3 point and the FEL simultaneously? That doesn't sound right, AFAIK, Power Beyond cuts flow to the 3PH when the FEL lever is moved out of neutral.

al m · Dec 14, 2017

torch said:
Wait, what?

You can lift the 3 point and the FEL simultaneously? That doesn't sound right, AFAIK, Power Beyond cuts flow to the 3PH when the FEL lever is moved out of neutral.

If this truely signals a issue,i would like to get to the bottom of it,I feel I have dodged a bullet once and don't want to push my luck.

al m · Dec 14, 2017

Just one thought,the " devertor " block n the b1750 is actually a priority valve,I believe,could this have a impact?

torch · Dec 14, 2017

al m said:
Just one thought,the " devertor " block n the b1750 is actually a priority valve,I believe,could this have a impact?

Ok, I'm just trying to think this through. Thinking out loud as it were:

A priority valve isolates flow to secondary systems if the hydraulic pressure drops below the set point. So, assuming the priority valve is set to provide fluid to the 3PH provided the pressure is above, say, 1,700psi, and assuming the pump can supply, say, 2,000psi, then lifting the FEL might not drop the pressure below the set point. So yes, in that case then I guess the FEL and 3PH could operate simultaneously

If that tractor is set up for "open centre" type controls, the line pressure beyond the priority valve should be near-zero unless and until a control is operated. There is a relief valve at the 3PH and another at the FEL. Those should protect the high pressure lines once a control is activated.

The filter shouldn't be in a high-pressure line, it should be in the suction line. The only way it could see pressure is if the entire case was pressurized. Is there any chance the case venting is plugged? That possibly the case got pressurized when the FEL cylinders retracted?

lugbolt · Dec 15, 2017

85Hokie said:
that last part hurt a bit - but then again, the machine is 25 years old +,
have any idea of the internal pressure after the rebuild?

Not sure it is toast just yet - but I would fill it up with oil, new K filter and do a pressure test, maybe the relief valve aint doing the job??

Question. What kubota spec does that cheap crap meet? The specification of the material that the buckets are made of? Or???

al m · Dec 15, 2017

lugbolt said:
Question. What kubota spec does that cheap crap meet? The specification of the material that the buckets are made of? Or???

says it meets Kubota specs, sorry, I must be careful with my spending, and had planned on changing the oil after a short period.ironically, it was the genuine Kubota filter that failed, not the store brand oil.Btw,the kubota dealer was not surprised the filter failed,says he sees it from time to time

85Hokie · Dec 15, 2017

al m said:
says it meets Kubota specs, sorry, I must be careful with my spending, and had planned on changing the oil after a short period.ironically, it was the genuine Kubota filter that failed, not the store brand oil.Btw,the kubota dealer was not surprised the filter failed,says he sees it from time to time

The filter is on the low pressure side.....so WHAT pressure is there that would blow out a filter? I would think it should be very rare that a filter would rupture on the low pressure side. I would take a picture of that and SEND it to Kubota........their filter.....

Omg,what went wrong,filter ruptured

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