B8200 strange set up

Bigearl

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B8200 hst
Dec 6, 2018
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Forest Lake mn USA
Hey guys,

First post here. I bought a b8200 hst from a co worker this past summmer. Since then I have been getting things freshened up. New fluid and filters, new seat, new lights, fixed the flashers, solved an oil leak (oil pressure sending unit) and some other odds and ends. Anyways, I am now in the process of replacing the front hydraulic lines. The tractor has a full cab with heat, a two spool loader valve, and a b2020 front blade for snow. As I’m getting into this I now realize my hydraulics are odd. The two spool loader valve has two lines that run from the rear block and utilize the same port. There is a third line from the loader valve that runs down to the mid pto. Everything works fine but why would they hook it up this way? Although I have nothing attached to the rear, it could be annoying if I did because the loader valve for the blade also operates the 3 point at the same time. Aside from the loader valve I can still operate the 3 point with the control lever. I’m thinking while I am doing these front four lines, to maybe re plumb the whole loader valve from the front block which would correct this strange set up. Any advice or tips would be great? I am new to tractors but having fun working on it. Thanks
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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The third line is a tank line if I'm understanding you correctly.
The loader valve has power in, power beyond and tank.

Post a picture or two of the lines.
 

D2Cat

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Bigearl, welcome to the forum. To be able to post pictures you need about 5 post first. You can just post trivial thing just to get the number up, like the temperature there today, or how do I post a picture?
 

Bigearl

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B8200 hst
Dec 6, 2018
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Looked at it again today. Tough to see markings on spool valve but I could see one pb mark. I believe the pb is one of the two lines that run to the rear block and share the same port. I believe my third line to tank is the line that screws into the bottom of my mid pto. Hopefully my pics load...
 

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Bigearl

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B8200 hst
Dec 6, 2018
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Forest Lake mn USA
forgot rear block. So although this is a weird set up, I’m not too worried about it because I don’t plan on using 3 pt in winter. Since I’m planning on replacing the 4 snow blade hydraulic hoses, I’m going to add quick connects. So come spring I’ll remove the blade and I’m assuming I’ll be able to operate the 3 pt. With either the spool valve or the oem lever to the right of the seat.

Again, has anyone ever seen a set up like this and why would they do it this way? The front block looks like it’s never been touched, but maybe it could be a clutter with the pedals and cab and what not?
 

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North Idaho Wolfman

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So it sounds like the front spool valve is hooked up right, the line to the mid PTO housing is rather unique but will work fine.

Can you turn on the flash or hit it with a trouble light and retake the last pic. ;)
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Are both the add on lines going to the loader valve?
And yes that is a truly strange way to hook it up, as both the PB and the Power in appear like they share the same port location??? :confused:
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Are both the add on lines going to the loader valve?
And yes that is a truly strange way to hook it up, as both the PB and the Power in appear like they share the same port location??? :confused:
 

Bigearl

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B8200 hst
Dec 6, 2018
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Forest Lake mn USA
Yes both of those lines which share the same port go to the loader valve. The third line on the loader valve is the one that connects at the drain of the mid pto which is my tank line I believe. So yeah, very odd. Again, any ideas why someone would ever hook up this way when the original block valve appears untouched? My first step will be replacing the four lines to the snow blade. I’m still debating if I should correct this strange set up or just leave it as is. I just put in new hydraulic fluid so that’s one issue I’m worried about is when I open up that mid pto connection I’m going to have a huge dump of new fluid. Opinions?
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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There is no real good way to change the tank line, as there is not any other port that you could connect it to.

The original kit for the loader had an adapter that would pipe the tank like into fill port.

As far as the other two lines, yea if it was mine I would change them to where they are supposed to go on the front block. ;)
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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There is no real good way to change the tank line, as there is not any other port that you could connect it to.
And yes if you pull that line off you will drain all the hydraulic fluid out!

The original kit for the loader had an adapter that would pipe the tank like into fill port.

As far as the other two lines, yea if it was mine I would change them to where they are supposed to go on the front block. ;)
 
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Bigearl

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B8200 hst
Dec 6, 2018
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Forest Lake mn USA
Wolfman, you say there I no other port? On my block valve there is three plugs. Power in, pb or neutral port, and tank port. Couldn’t I attach my three lines to these ports as described in the manual (see attached). Looking at it tonight, I would just need 90’s right off the block to keep the hoses clear of the hst pedal. I wish I would have considered this when I drained all the fluid!!!

These three hoses are 3/8 lines. Any idea on the type of fitting needed at the block?
 

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torch

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Some tractors (like my B7100) don't have that nice hydraulic block, set up from the factory to easily accept hydraulic implements and all 3 required ports are right there, complete with a "directional control" valve to bypass the ports when they are not in use. On those tractors, Wolfman is correct that the "Tank" line should be piped to a tee on the fill port.

My guess is that whomever originally installed your blade was not aware of this capability and jury-rigged their own design without fully understanding the "power beyond" concept.

If it was my machine, I would be inclined to re-plumb things as per your manual. Particularly the line returning to the tank. Not only does piping it into the drain look vulnerable to damage, I think pumping the return into the bottom of the tank is more likely to stir up sediment than returning it to the top of the tank. There's a reason why many machines have a magnet in the drain plug!

Don't forget to close the bypass ("Directional Control") valve after making the connections or you won't get any pressure to the auxiliary hydraulics.

From the looks of that drawing, my guess would be that those ports are for ORB fittings. Take one of the plugs to a hydraulic shop for confirmation.
 

Bigearl

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B8200 hst
Dec 6, 2018
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6
Forest Lake mn USA
Torch,

I think you just sold me on correcting this strange set up. Once spring comes, I plan to remove the snow blade and hook up the belly mower. That is when I think the lines will really be vulnerable to anything I come in contact with and risk ripping the lines out from under the tractor. I just need to confirm fittings at the block and prepare myself to try and re use the brand new fluid, or buy more.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Bigearl,
Yes you are right, the block on that model does have a tank port (most older models did not and the older DT version did not ), and yes hooking all the lines on the block is 100% the right way to do it, also note that the way it's plumbed now it might not have a pressure relief safety, the pressure relief is in the block.

I'm with torch on the fittings, I think they are BSPP ORB (British Standard Pipe Parallel, O-Ring Boss) Fittings.
 

Bigearl

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Equipment
B8200 hst
Dec 6, 2018
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6
Forest Lake mn USA
Thanks wolfman. So today I ordered the correct bolt, o rings and plug to restore the rear end plumbing and mid pto once the hoses get pulled. I’ll need to figure out my new hose lengths, and confirm clearances for fittings.

Are all orb fittings the British type? I looked up a couple orb fittings today but I didn’t notice anything about British? Before I buy I will pull a plug and confirm the orb fitting from the block.

Also just to confirm, my power beyond will go to neutral port correct?
 

torch

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B7100HSD, B2789, B2550, B4672, 48" cultivator, homemade FEL and Cab
Jun 10, 2016
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Muskoka, Ont.
Are all orb fittings the British type? I looked up a couple orb fittings today but I didn***8217;t notice anything about British?
Wolfman got his mords wixed. ORB threads are parallel, just like the British threads, but have a 60° thread flank angle. JIS parallel threads are interchangeable with BSPP, having the same pitches and 55° flank angle.

That said, there is a strong possibility that the ports are actually JIS, given that this IS a Japanese made tractor. If they have an o-ring that seals at the surface of the port, then they are probably ORB. If they have a 30° tapered seat protruding from the end of the plug, then they are probably JIS (or possibly 37° SAE flare -- measure carefully!). If they have an inverted 30° tapered seat at the end of the plug, then they are probably BSPP.

Again, take a plug with you when you go hose shopping.