flow control valve

Stomper

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I am needing to install several smaller screw piles (pylex) for a deck that I am going to build and I have been tossing around the idea for building a simple hyraulic instalation tool to bolt onto the bucket of my tractor and be run off of my third function. I would build a basic frame and just use the hydraulic motor from my capstan winch. The problem is that the motor was sized to give me 60 rpm at idle for the capstan and I would like to have around half of that or less for the screw piles. Can I just add a flow control valve on the unit that I will build (after the third function valve) to slow the rpm down. Will I need a line back to the tank from the flow control valve for the flow that is not used? Or would it be better to run hoses from my rear remotes?
 
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crmorse

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If you’re thinking of the flow control valves like Mike and I used on our winches I think that’s overkill. Plus, I don’t think they can be used backwards so you’d lose reverse.

I think this is a much better path for you. Just put one of these restrictors on each side and you’ll have slower speeds.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydra...aulic-Flow-Restrictor-Valve-SAE-10-9-1212.axd

Fair warning though, these will generate heat and put back pressure on your pump so I’d be careful and check everything over if running long durations. But if you’re using it a few minutes at a time like I’m imagining you should be GTG.


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North Idaho Wolfman

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Stomper

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So I wouldn't need a line back to tank then. Just intall a flow control valve on each of the line from the third function to the hydraulic motor?
 

crmorse

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Correct, if you use one of the valves linked above. You don’t need the Prince style valves we used on the winches.
 

crmorse

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Looks to me like it would work.

The other thing to think about is most 3rd function valves are electric solenoid valves which are instant on/off. I don’t think your motor is big enough to be a problem but if you have a big inertial load on it it might put a lot of shock load on the 3rd function. In that case, it would be better to use your rear remote. The other option would be to add an accumulator to the system.

That said, if you don’t have a heavy auger and you keep the speeds low you’ll be fine. Just keep an ear out for any signs of hammering in the system.
 

Stomper

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If I used The rear remotes would the relief in the rear remote valve protect the hydraulic system from any over pressure caused by the restriction through the flow control valve? If so, this might be the best way to go.

Edit: or I suppose I could just feather the handle on the remote valve to give me the speed I wanted instead of installing the flow control valves, Couldnt I?
 
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crmorse

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Yes in both cases. The flow valve would only reduce flow rate which has a small effect on raising system pressure but not the same as if the motor was stalled out.

But yeah, if you’re not going for long periods where holding the valve is difficult you could just feather it.

Side note: feathering the rear remote is basically the same thing and the flow valve. It’s just reducing the opening size which limits flow.
 

Stomper

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Perfect. Then that’s what I’ll do. Thank you for the info.
 

Ironman2

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I just had 20 screw piles ten ft long installed in March, and I put my 2500sf shop on screw piles in 2009.
A flow control valve will not work for your application as I see it. I use FC valves and at low speeds they have no torque in a motor so the motor will stall til pressure builds, and then rotate a bit and stall.
Pressure = horsepower and flow = speed.
A flow control valve does not raise system pressure or offer restrictions. It divides flow and dumps the excess to the tank. This volume dumping as the valve shuttles back and forth inside the valve causes a pulsed pressure drop and rise and at the very low rpm needed it will stall and rotate.

To sink a 10 ft screw pile takes 18 revolutions and 1 minute of time.

You will be better off to use a planetary or worm gear reduction and let more flow through.
It is a great system and anybody with a tractor or bobcat and a hydraulic head has a business opportunity.
 
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crmorse

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Ironman2, I think something must have been wrong with your valve because I had mine set as slow as the motor could possibly turn (probably <5rpm) and it still had enough torque to shred a 7000 lb rated rope and it never stalled the motor once. I do get what you are saying and motors can stall but I think it must have been something unique to your system. I’m willing to bet that Stomper is going to be just fine.
 

GreensvilleJay

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why not just add 2 sprockets and chain between motor and 'post turning' piece? easy to get 2:1, 3:1, 4:1 reduction.
or am I missing something ??
 

Ironman2

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Ironman2, I think something must have been wrong with your valve because I had mine set as slow as the motor could possibly turn (probably <5rpm) and it still had enough torque to shred a 7000 lb rated rope and it never stalled the motor once. I do get what you are saying and motors can stall but I think it must have been something unique to your system. I***8217;m willing to bet that Stomper is going to be just fine.
I used the same valve he wants to use but it was not sized to the pump flow, as the pump was 8gpm and the valve was meant for up to 16gpm. My control area on the dial was max rpm at the 1/2 way point which made adjustment difficult. This may or may not have affected performance, I don't know.

I also forgot to mention that the screw pile takes around 7000ft lb of torque by the time it reaches bottom. These operators record torque readings on their machine and send in a printout to the building inspector. Not needed in do it yourself, but there is some force involved.
 
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Stomper

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2017 L2501. Landpride Mower. Farm King Snow Blower. DIY Root Bucket grapple.
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Ironman, you are obviously a fan of screw piles. I have researched them quite a bit and really like the concept. This will be my first experience with them but the ones I will be using are for a small deck so they are small ones from Home Depot for the diy guy to install himself so I think I should be ok. I guess I will see because I am going to give it a try when the time comes.
I have two sets of rear remotes on my tractor, one with detent for the capstan and one with spring return to centre. I hooked up my capstan to the spring return one and feathered the lever and pulled a good size polar out of the bush extremely slow with out any issues. I dont know what the rpm was but it was definitely slow enough for screw piles. I was happy to see that feathering the valve was easy to get a slow steady pull and I dont think there should be any issues with installing the screw piles, but you never know. I will definitely post my results when I try it.
 

Ironman2

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Warburg, AB, Canada
Ironman, you are obviously a fan of screw piles. I have researched them quite a bit and really like the concept. This will be my first experience with them but the ones I will be using are for a small deck so they are small ones from Home Depot for the diy guy to install himself so I think I should be ok. I guess I will see because I am going to give it a try when the time comes.
I have two sets of rear remotes on my tractor, one with detent for the capstan and one with spring return to centre. I hooked up my capstan to the spring return one and feathered the lever and pulled a good size polar out of the bush extremely slow with out any issues. I dont know what the rpm was but it was definitely slow enough for screw piles. I was happy to see that feathering the valve was easy to get a slow steady pull and I dont think there should be any issues with installing the screw piles, but you never know. I will definitely post my results when I try it.
OK, now I see what you are doing. They can be put in with what you have. I guess they can be installed by hand too, if you are young enough:D
When the scottish guy invented them years ago, they were installing them up to 6 ft in diameter with 44 men on a capstan turning them.

Also, FWIW, the engineered screws I used are designed for 70 years, and I said BS, they will rust.
I talked to the guy that installed mine and he said they would go probably longer. He unscrewed one he installed 35 years ago and it was shiny. He said there is no oxygen down in the dirt so there is no rust.
 

Stomper

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2017 L2501. Landpride Mower. Farm King Snow Blower. DIY Root Bucket grapple.
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Wow thats impressive. I also think its impressive the weight that the bigger ones can support. They make it super easy and cheaper to build in areas where conventional foundations are not feasible or an option. Around here the frost keeps pushing everything out of the ground. Every year I have to pound my 3/4” electrical ground rod back into the ground. Depending on how wet the summer and fall is before freeze up and the moisture content of the ground, it can be 6” I have to pound it back in each year. I’m hoping with these screw piles I can stop any heaving with the flighting below the frost line. There is are 24” extensions available for the to go as deep as I need.
 

Ironman2

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L185 or L1501, tiller, brush mower
Aug 28, 2018
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Warburg, AB, Canada
Wow thats impressive. I also think its impressive the weight that the bigger ones can support. They make it super easy and cheaper to build in areas where conventional foundations are not feasible or an option. Around here the frost keeps pushing everything out of the ground. Every year I have to pound my 3/4” electrical ground rod back into the ground. Depending on how wet the summer and fall is before freeze up and the moisture content of the ground, it can be 6” I have to pound it back in each year. I’m hoping with these screw piles I can stop any heaving with the flighting below the frost line. There is are 24” extensions available for the to go as deep as I need.
Yes, you got the right solution and as long as your flytes are below the frost they will not move with the ground but stay at the height you installed them. You must have clay, sure sounds like it, the way it moves.
 

Stomper

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2017 L2501. Landpride Mower. Farm King Snow Blower. DIY Root Bucket grapple.
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Yes, you got the right solution and as long as your flytes are below the frost they will not move with the ground but stay at the height you installed them. You must have clay, sure sounds like it, the way it moves.
Yep lots of clay
 

Stomper

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2017 L2501. Landpride Mower. Farm King Snow Blower. DIY Root Bucket grapple.
Jun 30, 2017
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Another question about my diy screw pile driver. Will I need some kind of thrust bearing between the mount and the shaft adapter so that when I put down ward pressure on the motor during installation the motor doesnt get damaged. There shouldnt be too much downward pressure because I will probably just need the fel in the float position.
 
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