Kubota 1550 HST Won't start.

Lakota · Apr 15, 2013

My 1550 has 940 hours on it and has been maintained by the book. Last July I had a rotator cuff surgery so she sat until October. I started but thought the fuel was low so I drove down a couple hundred yards to refuel and it died and would not start. I fueled and still nothing so I changed the fuel filter and bled the air, It had been awhile so I could not remember if you get fuel out of the air bleed valve when you cranked with the emergency shutoff engaged.

It has always fired and started with ease but seems like it does not fire so I removed the fuel line at the air bleed valve. There was fuel there.

The only thing the book mentions in trouble shooting beyond bleeding the air out is the nozzle ? Or possibly the plug? Anyone know the likely hood of that failing like a plug was pulled? If I could I would put it on a trailer and take it for a visit at a shop but I don't have the means to get it there. I have been able to do all the maintenance so I think I could maybe fix it if I knew where to start. A flat bed tow truck would probably be $200 each way.

If anyone here could point me in the right direction here or any where that would be appreciated...I spelled this all out on a ask "the guy site" But did not want to give them $30 just to talk to someone I have no idea is going to be helpful after I paid...Certainly would not mind if they were but that was new to this old guy...so now I will try a topic search here...thanks for listening

Bulldog · Apr 15, 2013

It may pay you to drain the fuel tank and clean it out good with fresh fuel. Since it sat for a while it's very likely it has algea growing in the fuel. When you changed the fuel filter did it have black looking specs in the filter. If so that most likely was algea and why it died to begin with.

When you know for sure it has clean fuel and filter it will be easier to narrow down any other problems. Most Kubotas I have worked on either have a hollow bolt where the fuel line hooks to the pump or a small knob that you open which helps bleed the line. If you have the hollow bolt most times it can be loosened up and bump the enghine over until fuel squirts out. When you get fuel to this point tighten the bolt and in most cases it will crank. Let us know how it does and maybe we can help further.

Lakota · Apr 16, 2013

Bulldog said:
It may pay you to drain the fuel tank and clean it out good with fresh fuel. Since it sat for a while it's very likely it has algea growing in the fuel. When you changed the fuel filter did it have black looking specs in the filter. If so that most likely was algea and why it died to begin with.

When you know for sure it has clean fuel and filter it will be easier to narrow down any other problems. Most Kubotas I have worked on either have a hollow bolt where the fuel line hooks to the pump or a small knob that you open which helps bleed the line. If you have the hollow bolt most times it can be loosened up and bump the enghine over until fuel squirts out. When you get fuel to this point tighten the bolt and in most cases it will crank. Let us know how it does and maybe we can help further.

Thanks for your advice, Bulldog...I had pulled the hood yesterday knowing I needed to get serious about a machine that Has been good to me for going on 25 years. I was one armed last fall and could barely even get the fuel filter changed ,but vaguely remember black chunks...I looked at that tank yesterday and thought Like...maybe it would be good to go back to the start so I will now.

When the fuel filter has been changed I have always been able to bleed the line through the air vent and that worked fine. I watched a video here yesterday about bleeding the injector lines too...I went and looked and did not see any head decompression knob but when using the air bleed valve, have always cranked about 10 seconds and it worked fine. I will start at the fuel tank and work forward today and come back and report if I have any progress...

Thanks for your thoughts,
Lakota

Lakota · Apr 16, 2013

Project report: I drained the remaining fuel and it looked pretty good to my eyes. I could see a couple of drops of water in the fuel filter canister when I did that again. Next I opened the air bleed valve and cranked... nothing. It seemed like there just wasn't any fuel past the air bleed valve so I loosened the fuel injector lines in the way I saw it done in the video I found here yesterday. Cranked it about 15 seconds with out any fuel showing up in the 3 injector lines.

Now the other end of those 3 lines those come out of rectangular shaped part. Bear with my ignorance but is that the fuel pump or is it the round piece below? I do not have a book that shows the fuel pump. When they fail is it all at once and I assume it must have some type of diaphragm in it...could it have failed?

Yesterday I removed the fuel line that connects at the bleeder valve and fuel came from both directions...I feel only temporarily slightly relieved that at least it seems on this side between where the injector lines enter and the filter Is it just gravity flow into the filter or does the fuel pump draw it down?

I need a course in deisel 101 because I have been able to maintain my outboard motors for some time but feel like a fish out of water here. I have done okay with my T-1560 lawn tractor too. but this is something new but I think I can do it with a little help... I will be glad to share my info regarding my 25 year Kubota ownership experience with various implements on 6 acres of beet juice ballast 4x4 side hilling ... maintaining a battle-line with the woods. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Lakota · Apr 16, 2013

FYI...I did look at a parts place listed here online and can see the the round faced part is the fuel pump...if it is that failing it looks replaceable by me but don't want to just start dumping parts at it until I get a better idea...

Lakota · Apr 18, 2013

Re: Kubota 1550 HST Won't start. Diesel 101 basic ????'s

In small diesel motors 101...is it common for fuel pumps to fail or maybe injector pumps? If the tank lines and fuel filter filter have fuel but nothing at the fuel injectors at the top where they enter the motor.

Lakota · Apr 22, 2013

Re: Kubota 1550 HST "STILL" Won't start.

Maybe the 1550 HST is older so no one can relate...It is the same basics diesel motor I am pretty sure. When you try to get fuel up to the top of the fuel injector lines, do you open all 3 at once or one at a time?

When I tried it the first time I had all 3 open but got no fuel...is there a way to test the fuel pump? There was not fuel at the injectors and there is no smoke at the exhaust but it cranks fine...I do not have a dealer close by

Thank you for any help or ideas about some place I can get help. I live in Oregon, south of Portland

Apogee · Apr 22, 2013

Sounds like the injection pump might have an airlock.

Shouldn't make any difference whether you have one or all three lines cracked. You should get fuel from each.

Lakota · Apr 23, 2013

Apogee said:
Sounds like the injection pump might have an airlock.

Shouldn't make any difference whether you have one or all three lines cracked. You should get fuel from each.

It does seem like there is some type of blockage...There just isn't that much distance between the fuel filter canister and the injectors input but no fuel there.
Are there any type of tips to try and remove and airlock in the injection pump?

I appreciate your reply, Apogee. I was beginning to lose hope. Just keep trying to crank it with the air bleeder valve open?

Apogee · Apr 24, 2013

Lakota,

I apologize for not getting back with you before now. Just been super busy.

I would guess it's either algae blocking a line as mentioned by Bulldog, or a bad fuel pump. I'm leaning more towards a bad fuel pump.

The fuel pump assembly costs $52.77 from Messick's. I *believe* it is part number 15263-52030 but you should double check to be sure. You can also buy the diaphragm separately but it only saves $10. Might as well just buy the whole pump. The fact that they have 5 in stock tells me they go bad frequently otherwise they wouldn't stock them.

You can take the pump apart to check the diaphragm by undoing the screws that are in the top of it. We are talking about the round thingy that is sticking out the side of the injection pump. There 6 or 8 screws (I'm guessing at the number). You should be able to undo them, split the pump apart and see the diaphragm. If it has a split or hole in it, then it needs to be replaced.

Check for parts on the following link. Enter B1550 for your tractor model, then click on the plus next to engine, then fuel pump to see the exploded view and what I'm talking about:

http://www.kubota.com/part/partsList.aspx

Parts sources would be Vic who helps support this forum, Messick's or your local dealer.

Messick's:

http://www.messicks.com/partsearch.aspx?pn=15263-52030&ven=KU

Good luck and keep us posted,

Steve

Lakota · Apr 25, 2013

Thank you so much for your reply,Steve. When I first joined I followed a couple links provided and received the fuel system schematics the next day from Messicks..nice service since I had not bought anything yet.

The fuel pump was the thing I thought I was looking at but it was confirmed by their diagram.

On a side note I also see they have a shop book available for a 1550 HST for about $80...I am curious if anyone here has bought there shop books for their model before and used them? I will likely buy one with the fuel pump as well as a few other things like a new seat...The old ones were metal and it is the original and it id had.... any after market suggestions" I doubt the stock seat is still around

So I am going to pull the fuel pump and check the diaphragm which, through the process of elimination seems likely... You are correct in that for the extra $10 I would rather just get the whole thing.

I will come back and record the outcome either way...it may make sense to replace the fuel lines too since this machine has provided me with over 20 years of service for nothing other than, tires, hoses and fluids and filters...all the common things you would expect to replace...Thanks Steve

Lakota · Apr 25, 2013

Thanks again Steve...
I will update in a second but I am still wondering if anyone here has tried the Messicks shop manuals...I see they offer one for my older machine for aBout $80
Worth while...anyone, any model?

Okay fuel pump is off and opened up. I will try to load a couple pictures where you will be able to see brown residue on the outer metal center part of the diaphragm and inside the chamber opposite it. There was enough muck to plug and with the hoses off I was able to blow it clear but it was hard at first. It seemed like it had water in it so I completely drained the tank again and will replace the fuel filter again when I reassemble. Tank is open but covered with a cloth in my shop. That said I took the hose off at the air bleeder and plugged with my thumb while I cranked and got fuel coming out to where it connects at the valve but no way of measuring the pressure. After it was out and apart I will replace it all even though it could probably be soaked and cleaned. It is going on a 1000 hours and and I can see small cracks. AS hard as the top fuel pump nut is to get to you don't want to do it twice unless you were really stuck.

Now the piece where the metal injector lines come out at air bleeder valves...there was no fuel at that end...should I be trying to take that part and clean at the bleeder vlave or the out pups...is that some other type of pump?or maybe wd40?

How about injector fuel cleaner. injector clean, like carb cleaner? Is there some product like that for diesel? This is the first time I have been into a diesel fuel system but many gas motors.

I am going to try and publish some photos I took...maybe it will help someone else dig into a fuel distribution problem...I think it also shows both Bulldog and Apogee had a pretty good idea of the problem..likely both algae then leading to plugging the fuel pump...we'll see. Steve do you know if Vic id parts phone or online there? They have already been helpful in sending fuel system diagrams... Hope the photos work to share the journey...Lakota

Apogee · Apr 25, 2013

Lakota,

The manuals Messick's sells are the official Kubota manuals. In my opinion, well worth the $$ spent. I have one for each of my tractors. Another source to watch for one is eBay, but often the sellers ask more for them than what a new one costs.

Two options regarding the pump, clean or replace. If it were me, based on what I see, I'd replace. Why? Because of what appears to be rust on the metal piece in the center of the diaphragm. If it's not rust and will completely clean off then you're good. If it is rust, don't screw around with it and just replace it. You don't want to chance iron particles going through the injection pump or injectors.

Also, check the hoses to make sure they're not swollen on the inside. If they're at all cracked, just replace them. If the unit has ever had biodiesel run through it, then I'd change them while you're at it. At the very least, I'd flush all of the fuel lines and run something through them while you're at it just to be sure. If algae is your problem, you need to make sure you get all of it.

Glad you drained the fuel and flushed the tank again. Make sure you're refilling with fresh fuel from a busy station just to be sure that you didn't get a bad fill (water in the fuel from the station) the last time you filled your jug.

They make fuel treatment that handles the water, cleans and also lubes the injection pump. You might grab a bottle from the parts store. Standyne is one but there are others if you search this site.

Not sure on the air bleeder valves, however I wouldn't worry about fuel past the injection pump until the fuel pump has been replaced. After that, you should see fuel further up the system. If you do take them apart, don't go any deeper into the injection pump. I *think* there are copper crush washers that will need to be replaced if you take them apart. You will need to check the parts diagram to see. You might also order the copper washers that sit under the injectors while you're at it so you have them on hand and don't have to wait for another order if you need to take the injectors apart to clean them. Essentially, just order any copper washers or o-rings you might need even if you don't know for sure you're going to need them so you have them on hand.

Hope all of this makes sense. Glad you've found the problem.

Keep us posted and good job!

Steve

Lakota · Apr 26, 2013

Okay I dove into the deep end with a nice order placed with Messicks. Added a shop manual and they will be sending Steve the commission (LOL) A list of extra filters, o-rings, hoses etc to go with the fuel pump. My phone guy, ED (great service) seemed to agree with our dx so I hope it will all work out when I put things all back together when the parts come...a couple hose assemblies to the fuel pump had to be ordered so that may cost an extra week. Replaced a worn out 20 + year old seat too...if not for me for the next guy when I am gone because I believe this machine has more left than me...Thanks again, Steve. for your input on the manual...not rocket science but the right way to go.

I will update if there is any interest and hopefully sum it up in a good way in a couple of weeks.

Apogee · Apr 26, 2013

Cool!

Please keep us posted on how it works out.

Am looking forward to pics of her being all waxed up and looking sharp with her new seat...

Have a great weekend!

;-)

Lakota · May 18, 2013

Well I wish I had good news to report but I do not. After 3 weeks I now know it is not the fuel pump. The parts took about a week longer and I just got the clean fuel in again after waiting for the gasket to cure.

I did buy the manual as well and it mentions a couple of things but the bottom line is there is no fuel above the injector pump, but there is fuel where the top fuel line from the fuel pump connects at the bleeder valve,

When I removed that line after cranking 10 - 15 seconds 3 times, fuel ran back out from the injector pump (Top end of the line from the fuel pump) There just doesn't seem to be anything going any higher than that. I had gone through the procedure listed in a video here and loosened the lines at the injectors and cranked...there is nothing up that high.

The injector pump looks really major...if it failed would it be just instant? It stalled like it ran out of fuel and that was it. I thought for sure it was the fuel pump but it looked like there was a little dirty rust colored stain like the photo so it needed to be replaced but there was no obvious hole. This is the first time since I bought it new that it will not start...Over 20 years by the way.

Am I doomed here? My field grass is waste high and so are my tomato plants unplanted in pots and garden untilled...

Please tell me if you have any suggestions of what I might try next...It is looking more and more like a flat bed tow truck to hall 30 miles each way to a dealership.

For now I guess I will need to rent a small tiller but with the rotator cuff repair that may not be good either.

Hope I didn't spend $140 and $50 in freight for a seat and another
$83/ manual) for a tractor i'm going to loose.

Can I do this or should i give up?

Lakota · May 18, 2013

After reading another topic here and combing the pages of my shiny new manual, I feel less like jumping of a cliff...One thing I may have failed to mention is I stop this tractor with the emergency pull for years now. Maybe I will invest in a new switch if I can get it running. Saw a problem 4 pages long with a similar fuel delivery problem...Looked at my book and the info on fuel cut off solenoid...by the sounds of the other topic it is at least possible if it is not working it could be electrical...going to go look at connections or see if a squirrel ate a wire while I was out.

Lakota · May 18, 2013

I am still trying to provide as much feedback as possible...I checked the dc at the fuel cut off solenoid. It has juice as the switch is turned off until the relay clicks the power to it off....a few seconds before it cuts off pretty steady at 12.59 volts...There seems to be 3 positions for the lever, 1 for the engine stop rod then when you push it in it seems to stop at about 2/3 and then another all the way forward. There is only a single wire and there is only power to it when the key is turned off. Something I thought was interesting was the solenoid got hot to the touch while I was testing it???? First heat that motor has felt in awhile. I wounder if it has a short. I would say it got hot turning it on and off about 3 times. That is to say the switch from the run position to the off position. Maybe it is the fuel cut off solenoid that never allowed the thing to shut off by the switch....the stop rod overrides it all.

Just thinking out loud...when the stop rod is pulled to the no run position to bleed air after fuel filter changes it still always got fuel before and seems like fuel would come right out at the air bleeder valve....zip there now...

Not trying to go into the direction of the Gene discussion but it seems like a similar problem different motor.

Apogee · May 18, 2013

Hi Lakota,

Bummer regarding the fuel pump. I don't think you wasted money though based on the previous pics. Still frustrating though as it would have been nice if it solved the problem. Some things in life are just not that easy...

You might be onto something with the shutoff solenoid. Can you remove it and then crank the engine similar to what Gene did? If it's the same issue as Gene had, then you should be able to get fuel if you move the connecting linkage one way or the other with it removed.

Strange the solenoid is getting hot. Shouldn't get THAT hot. It will be interesting to see if it moves smoothly once removed or if it is binding. I do think you may be on the right track.

Good sleuthing on your part regarding the stop solenoid!

Don't give up or jump off a cliff. You'll get it!

Please keep us posted on what you find.

Steve

Lakota · May 19, 2013

Re: Kubota 1550 HST Won't start.updated after new duel pump

Thanks for checking back in Steve...The fuel pump was cheap because the parts I needed road with the seat for free...It was pretty obvious it was near the end but replaced now.

I am thinking the shut of problem had been the fuel shut off solenoid because after unhooking the linkage the plunger does nothing in terms of movement. The rod/plunger that comes out just sits there when the key is turned into any position. With a grounded test light into its wire, it has power only as the key is turned to the off position and the relay cuts the power to it at about 6-8 seconds. Tested yesterday it was about 12.5 volts

With the engine stop rod in either position lever is either forward or back. The manual shows this unit as the modified type so there is adjustment on in the stopper bolt...I can that picture of any of this stuff if need be. Before I buy one, (Messicks has 7 in stock) I will do a jumper test directly to it but right now that is not the problem with it disconnected.

With the lever able to move in either direction freely, there is still no fuel in either position...the lines are unfastened at all three injector assemblies but it seemed like fuel ran out from the bleeder valve when it was opened and the engine turned over after fuel filter changes. The lack of fuel seemed as obvious as Gene described....I mean there is not a little getting through like a gummy obstruction, there is zero like it is out of fuel.

edited to add: I just did the direct jump rest on the solenoid...12.72 volts directly to the one wire solenoid...With power it retracts about 1/8 "...power off it stays retracted...I can pull the plunger out by hand fairly easily but it does not go back out on its own when the power is cut. I think Steve said something about this in the Lastec 3372 thread... I will read again...how can I look to see if the fuel rack is opening or can I? The solenoid linkage is disconnected. Is there any reason to pull off the injector pump cover on the side. you can see by the photo it is pretty accessible just above the new fuel pump.

Too bad I had not pressure washed before I had the rotator cuff tear...cannot do it now in the garage until it runs...Any help will bring you much thanks...Lakota

Kubota 1550 HST Won't start.

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