Cold Start question

[Krump]

Hi:
Out here it gets nasty cold in Manitoba, How long do i typically have to heat it up before turning the key to start. I have tried it, and it seems like minutes, 2,3,4?? is this normal for this tractor. If i am heating it up, and go to the start position, it does not turn over, till after holding it for quite a while?? Is this normal??

[Mr. K]

Hey Krump, I bet Manitoba is cold right about now! I don't even want to think about it!

Normally we recommend about 60-90s of glow plug preheat before turning and cranking over. If, when you are cranking, the engine starts to fire but runs a little bumpy, it's ok to turn that plug back to preheating. The objective here is to get the combustion chamber up to operating temperature so that the diesel/air fuel mixture combusts spontaneously on compression (how a diesel works).

Now, all of this assumes you have done a few other things in advance, like:
1) are you storing your equipment in a garage or shed, away from the elements and wind?
2) are you using a block heater?
3) do you have a fully charged battery with at least 850 to 1000 CCA rating? Having a strong battery is important. If in doubt, get yours tested. Also, bringing the battery inside to warm up really makes a difference.
4) if equipped, you can try using your cylinder head decompression knob - that will release some of the compression for 30 seconds or so, that will circulate some of the warmer oil up to the upper half of the engine

We have a few articles and videos that you can look at too:
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/2008/12/cold-weather-starting-tips/
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/2009/02/trouble-starting-your-kubota-skip-the-starting-fluid/

I would say that preheating for 3-4 minutes is a long time, even for Manitoba. What do you think Vic?

[Krump]

Thanks Mr. K

The starter does not turn over at all, till after few minutes, or probably longer of preheat, should it should crank when you automatically turn the key to crank it, right?????.

I keep trying the key back and forth till eventually the starter cranks. Even after all the preheats the battery does not seem to be lagging, or dead, when it catches it turns it over quite quickly!!

Maybe there is something wrong with the starter, But once its warmed up, and you shut it down ,say a few minutes later, go to crank it and cranks ok, then starts up immediately.

I thought maybe with the Kubota tractor, the starter will not crank till the motor is preheated enough???

[Service Dept Vic]

Mr. K is correct, 3-4 min of glowing is more than is required.

What is the model of this tractor?

After you "glow" and turn the key to the crank position, the starter will engage immediatley.

A common problem with the Kubota ignition switch, is the back of it, which is "pressed" on, slightly falls away from the internal contacts, giving you that intermittent "go-no-go" starter scenerio.

If you are hard pressed for a replacement ignition part, jamming a small block of wood up against the back of the ignition switch and the fuel tank will put pressure on the back of the assembly, making and maintaining a good contact.

Something else you should do, is crank out those glow plugs with a 10mm wrench or socket, and bench test each one of them. Just because you have power to the top of the glow plug, does not meant that it's ignited.

Pull each glow plug, and using the battery in the tractor and a set of booster cables, connect the "negative" of the booster cable to the threaded area of the glow plug, and hold the "positive" booster cable end to the top of the glow plug. don't hold this in your hand, set the plug on the bench, because if that plug does flame up, it's red hot and full glow in seconds!

Watch the tip end of the plug, it should glow in a few seconds. If it doesn't then the plug is "dead" and requires replacing.

When re-installing the glows, make sure they are tight, and the wiring nuts are tight and solid. Test with your 12V tester to make sure the glow plug controller is sending current to the plugs.

[Krump]

Hi Vic:

My model is L3000.

If i turn the key to straight cranking it does not activate the starter, i suspect it is what you said perhaps the switch is defective. I will have to troubleshoot more. I originally thought perhaps the electrical system would not allow the starter to be activated unless the cylinders were preheated enough. But i understand now the motor should crank over automatically when you turn your key to the right, and my does not, just sometimes. Thanks guys!

[dusty-t]

Vic you are my hero. People may frown on bandaid fixes but when you are in a tough spot 40 miles from nowhere those bandaid fixes that no one would ever lower themselves to do, might save a 40 mile walk.

[Service Dept Vic]

My wonderful son Owen, who is a Licenced, Inter-Provincial Red Seal Automotive Service Technician, (we used to call them mechanics in my day) would "cringe" at my "block of wood" suggestion or telling someone to use a short piece of Hay wire to "fix" anything!

But you're right. Sometimes these things get you out of a jamb and a tight spot, saving some shoe leather. Like you, I've been in that place, and it's usually windy, dark or getting dark, I can't get cell phone service, I need a flashlight but don't have one, I don't smoke so I have no matches, wish I had a 12mm open end in my pocket, I'm alone, it's getting cold, now I'm hungry, and need to use a bathroom, Code RED!

The problem is leaving that haywire repair on the tractor long after it served it's purpose!

If you nicely paint that block of wood and screw it to the dack of the dash, that sort of defeats the spirit of my "quick fix" advice!:rolleyes:

[Krump]

Yes quick fixes certainly are required to get things going and to troublshoot problems, i have done it lots too.

Just wondering if i quickly jumpered the starter solenoid with the key off, it would turn over right???. Of course it being in Neutral etc, etc safety first!! Would this way tell me if the ignition switch is defective??

To find out if the key switch is faulty in the crank mode, i turn the key on and the tractor shud start, i think???. if the cylinders were preheated ??? The battery seems good.


It starts ok once the machine was running, and warmed up. i shut it off, a few times and everything was ok for starting. Its the first start of the day, or sitting for long hours, that its reluctant to crank. I hear no clicking at the solenoid though, when i attempt to crank it. This trouble shooting stuff can drive a person nuts.

[Service Dept Vic]

Yep, that test will tell you if the ign switch is defective. Before you condem it, go back to the basics on electical.

All connections must be tight. Check battery cable ends, cables and grounds, check the power lead from the battery to the starter, and check the push on 12V connection at the solenoid.

Tighten the lugs on the back of the ign switch and then see what you have.

If you truly have an intermittent ign switch, then it's replacement time!

[Mr. K]

Vic, suppose he does have a faulty ignition switch, have you got that part? :D

[Service Dept Vic]

Yes. In stock.

[earnbob]

I got a dt245 this fall. Thanks to a new 880 CCA battery and a magnetic block heater it has started pretty good this week at 0 or below temps. What I would like to know is about the decompression knob. The cable and knob are rusted and won't move at all. The other end of the cable ends near what I think is a decompression lever. Moving the lever has no noticeable effect on the cranking speed, if it is running there is still no difference. My question is what does it do and is the decompression feature activated with the lever up or to the left?

[JWB]

I have an L245 that has the same no/start/ pause as well. The decompression lever is stuck/frozen at the valve cover. The next time i'm at the property to work, I can tell I'll get no work done. You guys have given me so many ideas that I'll have to work on the tractor all day.........I love it. Any one with any ideas on the stuck decompression lever?

[dusty-t]

The decompressor was stuck on my B8200. I have never used it.It was just the cable that was stuck. I had the rocker cover off to tighten up the valve train, so I disabled the decompressor . It is simply a rack that lifts the exhaust valves to reduce compression so the engine turns over easier. Even at -20 C I only have to use the glow plugs for about 60 seconds. So I don't need the decompressor.:D:D Dusty

[GWD]

Time for my story.

Same problem on an L3650. But arcing the starter produced the same results - no improvement or difference.

It turned out that the battery ground to the frame did not complete the circuit well enough - even with a new cable and cleaned up connectors/connections.

Eventually the battery was grounded to the engine block and all was well from then on. Lots of 12V problems involve grounding issues.

[JWB]

Thanks for the info. Next time i'm at the property i'll pull the valve cover and check it out. I'll also check the ignition switch
JWB

[Service Dept Vic]

It's very common for the cable to sieze in the cable sheath, and for the decomp rocker assemb on the undeside of the valve cover to also sieze from non use.

Take it apart, free it up, lube it up and replace the cable if necessary.

[ptwyz]

I have a question. How long does a glow plug last typically? Or do you need to go by number of uses rather than time? Here in Ohio it can get cold, but not -30º cold. At least not normally. Usually in the teens. How long should I "glow" or preheat at these temps?

Guess I should of typed, "I have a couple of questions".

Thank you!

[Jayhawk238]

I know this is way after the fact, however, on my Grand L5030 HST/CAB have both a block heater and a battery blanket and have no trouble with starting here in the mountains of Idaho. Another thing I have installed, and love it, and that's a remote starter! They work on any type transmissions. No more wading through deep snow to start my tractor. Now I start my tractor from the kitchen table drinking a hot cup of coffee! I also let my tractor warm up for at least 15 minutes. By doing that when I go to start blowing snow the engine oil and transmission fluids are warm and ready to work.

[meanjean]

Command start on your tractor!?
You sir are awesome!

[ipz2222]

Remote start on a tractor! He's a wus!!!(BG)
I've never used the decompression lever on my l245 to start the eng but since several people mentioned it, I tried it. I warmed the glow plugs as usual and pulled the lever and hit the starter, 2 seconds later I released the decompression lever, the eng started IMMEDENTIALLY. Before it would hit on 1 then 2 cylinders and then start.

[meanjean]

Should I push the clutch in while glowing plugs?

[ipz2222]

"clutch in" , makes no difference. Just won't start with clutch out.

[meanjean]

Awesome, thanks.

[Bulldog]

The clutch makes no difference on the glow plugs but a M 9000 just needs to be in neutral to crank. It doesn't require the clutch to be depressed to crank.

[CedarTree]

Would this ignition-switch issue also appear on an L355-SS? I seem to have experienced this sort of failure a few days ago. At the time the engine was being a pain to start and I thought I'd overheated the starter. I Was getting power but solenoid/starter were dead/silent. It started fine 30 mins later.

[TGReaper]

Really good responses by obviously knowledgeable people.
It has been my experience that glow plugs ( VW Diesels) fail just when ever they feel like it,with no predictable life span.
The only suggestion I might make is that you use a test light when checking them on the bench. I have burn scars to prove that good ones get very hot very fast.

Dan

[aquaforce]

Be sure to check the small, start wire connection at the starter solenoid. I have found mine to give me fits to the point I was convinced the starter was going to have to come off for repairs. What I finally found was the engine vibration was enough over time that the connection there was not tight enough to start as it should but not loose enough to fall off. :confused: :confused: :confused:

I about went bald over that one. :mad: