UDT or Super UDT?

[kubotaworks]

I'm new to the forum and recently purchased a L2650 from a local dealer....in changing all of the fluids, should I stick with UDT for the transmission and hydraulics, or can I put in Super UDT? Any advantage to the Super UDT besides better for cold weather operation?

[Service Dept Vic]

In newer Kubota tractors equipped with SUDT from assembly, the operators manual will specify that SUDT be replaced when the fluid is changed.

This has more to do with the tranmsmission choices in the newer BX, GL40's, and M Series Kubota's now. Kubota has, GST, FST, FST-Plus, HST, Intellishift, Powershift, AND the Power Steering when Hydrostatic a few years ago, putting more demand on the hydraulic circuit.

Super-UDT is not synthetic as some owners think, but it is a far superior lubricant over UDT. Used in an older gear drive or GST tractor you may hear a little more hydraulic "pump" whine as the viscosity of SUDT is thinner, and would probably be a good choice in a colder climate.

The only benefit that you may find in using SUDT is that the change interval is double that of UDT. So, while you pay a premium price for the "Super", it can stay in service twice as long according to Kubota.

John Deere, Case, New Holland, Versitile, AGCO, McCormick, Kubota, Kioti, pick a tractor manufacturer! For the last 80 years they all have been pushing a lubricant line. They all claim you'll get the best performance from using only their oil.

I recently sold my L2650DT, had 1172 orig hrs, beautiful tractor, loved it.

I waxed it twice a year, was an enthusiastic owner, and am a pretty decent Ag Mechanic. I used only TDH Hydraulic oil in that Kubota and always bought it at Wal-Mart. A 5 gallon pail is $45 CDN everyday of the week. That's only $36 USD.

[phyxer]

I have a B2620 I purchased new this spring. I went to my dealer this weekend and bought everything to do the 50 hour service myself. I asked my dealer which hydraulic fluid to put back in and he said UDT would be fine. In fact, they don't carry the SUDT. He said that nobody buys it and they haven't had any reason to believe that the SUDT does anything the UDT doesn't. We live in SW Oklahoma where it is 100+ degrees all summer long and it seldom drops below freezing for longer than a day or two. So my B2620 which according to the manual came from the factory with SUDT will be getting it's fluid replaced with plain ole UDT fluid. Just wanted to pass along what I was told. If anyone thinks my dealer is way off base, please feel free substantiate your claims. Thanks in advance. :p

Troy

[Ob1kubota]

While I agree with Vic on temperature and viscosities, SUDT is about how quick it gets there and what it does once there. On the molecular level you are lubricating metal to metal components that are reciprocating, rotating and compressing under great pressures. I have always found in mechanical experience the lubricity of petroleum products are based on friction modifers added to compounds that promote anti-wear and scar resistance formulas to basic organic crudes. ( academic terms for slickness ) The chemical properties of SUDT Vs UDT are all about " slickness '.... now you don't have to be an engineer to understand the value and longetivity of replacing lube oils especially these day when dollars are tight in this Obama economy in the States. Please take the time to learn these terms and then you decide whether or not you want to expose your new B2620 investment to anything less than what the engineers put in it from the factory.....

Kubota Super UDT Fluid



Kubota Super UDT has been developed as per the stringent specifications of Kubota-Japan.



Kubota Super UDT has been formulated using premium base-stocks and optimized chemistry to deliver increased performance and durability.



Key Features

Low Temperature Fluidity

Kubota evaluates fluid performance in a pump test stand at -30degC.



Improved flow for Super UDT compared to UDT and other commercial tractor hydraulic fluids.







Kubota Super UDT Key Features

Kubota Super UDT provides

Improved hydraulic transmission control



Smoother start of tractor's HST (hydrostatic transmission) at low temperatures



Improved flow through filters during cold temperature start-up.



Less wear on metal parts since Super UDT flows to critical contact areas during start-up.



Reducing Brake Squawk

Kubota evaluates a fluid's performance in SAE #2 machine and low velocity friction test.



Oil "C" is likely to cause squawk in either wet brakes or transmission clutches.



Kubota Super UDT is evaluated with transmission clutch and wet brake friction material.



Stable Friction Performance

Tractor fluids need to maintain friction properties during life of fluid, to insure proper operation of transmission clutches.



Other oil shows deteriorating friction which can lead to poor/harsh shifting, lessened torque transfer and possible wet clutch failure.



Super UDT is improved over previous UDT, offering longer friction stability. Testing is conducted in Kubota's own wet clutch test system.





Water Tolerance

Kubota Super UDT performance evaluated in the presence of water (0.2%-1.0%)



Super UDT maintains

-Stable friction for clutches
-Smooth gear shifting
-No brake squawk even when water (0.2%) is mixed into
oil

Super UDT will not clog filter even when mixed with 1.0% water. Some fluids form sediment or solids that will clog or block important filters.



Kubota Super UDT features and benefits

Features
Benefits

Water Tolerance
No Rust- Reduces wear and tear on equipment

Smooth gear shifts

No brake squawk

Longer equipment life


Improved Shear Ability
Fluid has correct viscosity at high temperature. No metal to metal contact

Less shear of fluid means less power loss in hydraulic pumps

Proper viscosity means proper transmission shifting

Longer equipment life, less down time


Low temperature fluidity
Faster cold weather starts

Less time needed for warm-up

Hydraulics ready to operate with less jerking

Less metal to metal contact

Longer equipment life; less down time


Unique friction characteristics
Smooth gear shifts. Less operator shift shocks

No brake squawk. Less operator fatigue

Maintain brake capacity for safe stopping

Clutches and brake pads last longer

Improved equipment durability ;)

[Service Dept Vic]

Ok, I'm sold. It's SUDT in this shop from now on! Send the bill to Mr. K. He'll know what to do with it!

[OrangeRidge]

A year on and I have a question ;

Kubota Australia don't import SUDT , only UDT . Now my new BX has
factory filled SUDT ( so we're lead to believe ) which in 50 hours
time will require a replacement . What's the viscosity/spec of
Kubota SUDT ( UDT is 20w ? ) so that I can locate another companies
product equiv. ? Is it a synthetic 5w/30 ?

[eserv]

We can only get premium udt in Canada. My service rep. tells me it is the same as super udt! It really does make a difference in the power shift tractors but the other machines don't seem to be as fussy. I have never seen a kubota transmission OR engine failure that I would attribute to poor lubrication. I have seen a few fail because of NO lubrication. Keep them filled and they will all give a happy carefree life!
Ed

[OrangeRidge]

Spent some time on the Net and have come to the following conclusion ;
SUDT is near as damn it the same as JD Low Viscosity Hy-Gard JD20D.
They have nearly identical profiles at 40 and 100 centigrade and visco
index.
Now this is interesting ; I'm not familiar with JD hydro fluids , so when I
'phoned the local JD Dealer for a price on Hy-Gard fluids , he informs me
that JD Australia now only import Low Visc because it's far superior to
the 20w standard Hy-Gard that's too thick at temps below 70 f .
He reckoned that at 60 centigrade system operating temps , both
Hy Gards are equal viscosity , but that takes an hour or so ...........
For my 50hr , I'll use JD20D in the BX.

[Sam427]

You should be able to get Shell Donax TD to replace the UTD, or Shell Donax TD Low Vis to replace the SUTD. I run the Donax TD in my L3410 GST and saw improvements over whatever was in it, it is more quiet and doesn't drag out between shifts. It's a good quality oil. http://www.shellusserver.com/products/pdf/DonaxTD.pdf

[archelon99]

I have a L1501DT (1975) Kubota with no synchromesh gears in the transmission. i.e. all straight cut gears. Kubota has told that I should be using UDT. That doesn't make any sense to me when the specifications call for 80W in the transmission and 90W in the differential. Can anyone shed some light on this very confusing topic?

[OrangeRidge]

I don't think 20W UDT is right for your requirements.

[Bulldog]

A year on and I have a question ;

Kubota Australia don't import SUDT , only UDT . Now my new BX has
factory filled SUDT ( so we're lead to believe ) which in 50 hours
time will require a replacement . What's the viscosity/spec of
Kubota SUDT ( UDT is 20w ? ) so that I can locate another companies
product equiv. ? Is it a synthetic 5w/30 ?

I know you can get Amsoil there. Their brand of tractor trans/hyd fluid works better than the SUDT did. I don't imagine cold is a issue for you so this might interest you. My trans temp lowered up to 70 degrees after switching it to Amsoil.

[OrangeRidge]

I'll investigate that product . Thankyou .

[Bulldog]

OrangeRidge, I use Amsoil products in everything I own. Engines, trans, gear boxes, and anything that takes grease. I normally don't say much about it any more because Amsoil seems to ruffle feathers among the orange brothers. I've been using Amsoil for almost 20 yrs now so if you have any questions I'll be happy to try and help you out.

[Sam427]

OrangeRidge, I use Amsoil products in everything I own. Engines, trans, gear boxes, and anything that takes grease. I normally don't say much about it any more because Amsoil seems to ruffle feathers among the orange brothers. I've been using Amsoil for almost 20 yrs now so if you have any questions I'll be happy to try and help you out.

I don't think you ruffle any feathers with the Amsoil preachings, it's just that some don't see it as being worth the money it cost.

As you know, I did not see favorable results when I switched my truck over to it. I would normally go 7000 to 8000 miles on a conventional oil change, and the Amsoil was supposed to go twice the mileage, it didn't. I did see roughly a half a mile per gallon increase at first, but that was gone after a few thousand miles, and the mileage got so bad I was forced to change well before the 15,000 miles it should have went. It also burned more oil than normal conventional, twice as much. I have used standard Valvoline Conventional, Valvoline High Mileage, and Pennzoil Extended Mileage in my truck, by far, the best oil has been the Pennzoil, and it's conventional oil too. I also changed the rear diff lube and saw no difference.

Everyone that has had to buy Kubota parts knows that it isn't cheap, and their oil is no different, it cost roughly $30 more for 5 gallons compared to a good quality Shell product, which will work just fine in any Kubota as long as you buy the correct product. It's about being able to afford to use your equipment. At the prices Amsoil charges, you can't afford to do too many oil changes, as it is double what other oils cost, it just doesn't make economic sense.;)

[Bulldog]

I don't think you ruffle any feathers with the Amsoil preachings, it's just that some don't see it as being worth the money it cost.

As you know, I did not see favorable results when I switched my truck over to it. I would normally go 7000 to 8000 miles on a conventional oil change, and the Amsoil was supposed to go twice the mileage, it didn't. I did see roughly a half a mile per gallon increase at first, but that was gone after a few thousand miles, and the mileage got so bad I was forced to change well before the 15,000 miles it should have went. It also burned more oil than normal conventional, twice as much.

It's about being able to afford to use your equipment. At the prices Amsoil charges, you can't afford to do too many oil changes, as it is double what other oils cost, it just doesn't make economic sense.;)

Just curious, did you flush the engine before the oil change?

My F 150 gained 2 mpg just with the engine oil change and I ran my oil for 25,000 miles between changes. It didn't burn any oil.

"Burned twice as much oil than normal"
I think normal is "0" so it sounds like there's already some type of wear or leak issue.
Amsoil does lots for engine but it's not a miracle in a bottle. A engine that already burns oil most likely will use more of any brand synthetic oil. Synthetic flows so much easier it would just make sence that it would burn more, leak more or whatever the case may be.

My buddy puts 80,000 miles on a Mack dump truck each year on one change of Amsoil. That's one change per year instead of 8. In the last 15 yrs he has change oil 15 times instead of 120 times using standard oil. :eek:
I would say that Amsoil has save him several thousand in oil changes alone. :D

The last time I bushhogged this last year I ran 12 hrs on my M 9000 pulling a 15' batwing. 92 hp at pto speed for 12 hrs on 15 gal of fuel. 1.25 gallons per hr. About 1/3 the fuel consumption it's advertised to use.

When I first got my trackhoe it was burning about 1 gph of fuel. After changing oil I'm in the neighborhood of 1/2 gph.
That makes perfect economic sense to me. :cool:

[TripleR]

I have been flamed more on oil threads on different threads than anything, so I really don't want to start an argument or debate.

We can only judge by our own experiences; some have been great while others not so much.

I come from a family of mechanics with one Mechanical Engineer who prided himself in keeping his vehicles running well beyond what any one would reasonably believe.

We have not tried Amzoil, but tried some others in cars, trucks, tractors and motorcycles.

Our results came no where near what was advertised, so we have stopped using them. I am glad to see they work for some.

I sure wish they had as changing oil is getting a lot harder the older I get; may have to start using the FEL on one tractor to get me up off the creeper after working on another.:(

[Bulldog]

I really don't want to start an argument or debate.

We can only judge by our own experiences:(

You said it. I don't try to share my experiences much any more because it always turns into a debate and goes nowhere.

[TripleR]

You said it. I don't try to share my experiences much any more because it always turns into a debate and goes nowhere.

Ain't it the truth; I had to stop posting on a couple of forums due to offering no more than what I just posted.

We won't even go into when I offered my opinion/experience with the much beloved 1911.:(

[Sam427]

Just curious, did you flush the engine before the oil change?

My F 150 gained 2 mpg just with the engine oil change and I ran my oil for 25,000 miles between changes. It didn't burn any oil.

"Burned twice as much oil than normal"
I think normal is "0" so it sounds like there's already some type of wear or leak issue.
Amsoil does lots for engine but it's not a miracle in a bottle. A engine that already burns oil most likely will use more of any brand synthetic oil. Synthetic flows so much easier it would just make sence that it would burn more, leak more or whatever the case may be.

My buddy puts 80,000 miles on a Mack dump truck each year on one change of Amsoil. That's one change per year instead of 8. In the last 15 yrs he has change oil 15 times instead of 120 times using standard oil. :eek:
I would say that Amsoil has save him several thousand in oil changes alone. :D

The last time I bushhogged this last year I ran 12 hrs on my M 9000 pulling a 15' batwing. 92 hp at pto speed for 12 hrs on 15 gal of fuel. 1.25 gallons per hr. About 1/3 the fuel consumption it's advertised to use.

When I first got my trackhoe it was burning about 1 gph of fuel. After changing oil I'm in the neighborhood of 1/2 gph.
That makes perfect economic sense to me. :cool:

Normally my truck burns maybe a half a quart on an 8000 mile oil change, certainly in the acceptable range. With the Amzoil it burned close to two quarts in within 13,000 miles. The oil change after the Amzoil was back to normal.

Everybody should use whatever they feel is best and works for them. I tried it, didn't care for it at all, and will stick with what works best for me.:D If you have been using Amzoil for 20 years and haven't tried anything else, maybe you should, technology has come a long way in 20 years.

[Sam427]

I have been flamed more on oil threads on different threads than anything, so I really don't want to start an argument or debate.

We can only judge by our own experiences; some have been great while others not so much.

I come from a family of mechanics with one Mechanical Engineer who prided himself in keeping his vehicles running well beyond what any one would reasonably believe.

We have not tried Amzoil, but tried some others in cars, trucks, tractors and motorcycles.

Our results came no where near what was advertised, so we have stopped using them. I am glad to see they work for some.

I sure wish they had as changing oil is getting a lot harder the older I get; may have to start using the FEL on one tractor to get me up off the creeper after working on another.:(

I look at it this way, oil is going to get nasty, regardless of what brand or type, it just the nature of the beast. After seeing how nasty the Amzoil was at 13,000 miles, I will never go that far on an oil change again, it can't be good for wear on parts. The big oil companies have good product at a reasonable price, just find something that fits your budget and keep it changed on a regular basis, should do just fine.

[Sam427]

And if you just have to have orange fluid for your orange tractor, look no further.:D

Chevron Synthetic All-Weather THF


Customer Benefits

Chevron Synthetic All-Weather THF delivers value through

Reducing operational costs � Excellent performance in a wide range of ambient and operating temperatures provides year-round improved low temperature hydraulic and transmission responsiveness versus typical John Deere J20C fluids. This eliminates the need to switch fluids between seasons thereby saving substantial operating expense.

Longer oil life � Outstanding ability of the base stock to withstand oxidation at high operating temperatures results in increased service life of the oil.

Longer equipment life � Special additives protect metal surfaces against scuffing and wear even under severe operating conditions � leading to increased equipment life.

Lower inventory cost � One fluid does the job of a full range of mobile hydraulic systems. Can replace multiple products and free up shelf space too!

Minimizing weather and storage concerns � Protects against rust and corrosion of highly finished precision parts when operating in humid conditions and during seasonal shutdown periods.

Reduced downtime � Good compatibility with seals, O-rings, and packing materials maintains their good condition and keeps leakage at a minimum.

Smoother operation � By eliminating brake "chatter" and transmission "slip" it assures quiet and efficient action of brakes and transmission.

More reliable operation � Formulation keeps metal parts clean and free of varnish and sludge deposits that could result in premature breakdown.


Features

Chevron Synthetic All-Weather THF is a truly unique, high quality, multifunctional fluid, specially formulated for use in transmissions, final drives, wet brakes, and hydraulic systems of tractors and other equipment employing a common fluid reservoir.

Chevron Synthetic All-Weather THF is specially designed for unsurpassed operation in all types of weather � both severe winter cold and extreme summer heat. In fact, Chevron Synthetic All-Weather THF meets the requirements of both John Deere J20C and J20D specifications. This, combined with excellent oxidation stability, eliminates the need for seasonal oil changes.

Its distinctive orange color provides for easy product identification and leak detection.


Functions

Chevron Synthetic All-Weather THF is an unsurpassed combination lubricant for modern tractors and similar equipment. It performs many functions, such as lubrication of the transmission and final drive, and serves as a hydraulic fluid to operate power steering units, brakes, implements, and attachments.

Chevron Synthetic All-Weather THF has a viscosity index much higher than typical multifunctional transmission/hydraulic fluids. This provides excellent flow at low temperatures and good oil film protection at high operating temperatures.

Furthermore, Chevron Synthetic All-Weather THF
eliminates brake "chatter" and excessive brake facing wear
assures smooth operation of clutch packs and wet brakes
provides excellent shifting action
provides superior rust and corrosion protection for vital parts
minimizes leakage because of good compatibility with seals, O-rings, and packing materials
prevents sludge and varnish formation
protects metal surfaces against scuffing and wear
provides superior gear lubrication compared to typical cold weather, low viscosity tractor hydraulic fluids
allows for ready leak detection because of its distinctive orange color.

Chevron Synthetic All-Weather THF is compatible with other combination tractor, transmission, and hydraulic fluids. It is recommended as an Allison C4 fluid for use in their transmissions.


Applications

Chevron Synthetic All-Weather THF is recommended for use
as a multifunctional and multiseasonal fluid in all types of tractors and construction equipment.
in any application which calls for the following OEM lubricant specifications:

John Deere � J20C, J20D
AGCO � improved power fluid 821XL
Ford New Holland � ESN-M2C134-D, FNHA-2-C-201, FNHA-2-C-200
Massey Ferguson � M1135, M1141, M1127, M1129A
White Farm Equipment � Q-1826
Case � JIC-143, JIC-145, MS 1206, MS 1207
Oliver � Type 55
Minneapolis-Moline Fluids
Caterpillar TO-2
Renk � Bus Automatic Transmission Fluid
Allison C4
Kubota Super UDT, UDT
International Harvester B6

Chevron Synthetic All-Weather THF is an excellent hydraulic fluid for all types of hydraulic systems. It passes the High Pressure Vane Pump Test, ASTM D 2882, with less than 15 mg steel weight loss.

Do not use in high pressure systems in the vicinity of flames, sparks and hot surfaces. Use only in well ventilated areas. Keep container closed.


Typical Test Data


CPS Number 255237
MSDS Number 6948
API Gravity 34.5
Viscosity, Kinematic
cSt at 40�C
cSt at 100�C 44.7
9.5
Viscosity, Saybolt
SUS at 100�F
SUS at 210�F 225
58.2
Viscosity, Brookfield
cP at -40�C 17,000
Viscosity Index 204
Flash Point, �C(�F) 242(468)
Pour Point, �C(�F) -45(-49)
Color Orange

Typical test data are average values only. Minor variations which do not affect product performance are to be expected in normal manufacturing.

Source: TTF-45
Date: 09/18/2000
Copyright � 1999, 2000, 2001 ChevronTexaco Corporation. All rights reserved.

[Bulldog]

I look at it this way, oil is going to get nasty, regardless of what brand or type, it just the nature of the beast. After seeing how nasty the Amzoil was at 13,000 miles, I will never go that far on an oil change again

I have tried several different brands of oil over the years. I didn't just blindly switch to Amsoil products. I tested everything I use in different situations and had no plan of switching unless Amsoil proved to be better. It beat the other brands every time.

Oil does get nasty. That's why premium filters are worth the money . If you can't filter the oil it gets nasty. That reason alone is why I don't use Wix filters. They don't have the filter media that several other brands do. Not the worst on the market but far from the best.

Nasty at 13,000?
Was the engine flushed before the Amsoil was installed?
Did the filters get changed every 3,000 miles?

It's not the oil's fault if it gets dirty. That is what the oil filter is far. Sounds like the filter let you down, not the oil.

When my F 150 was driven full time the oil at 25,000 was just starting to turn a dark brown. It was cleaner looking than the Mobil was at 3,000.

I do agree that everybody should use what makes them feel good.

[Sam427]

I have tried several different brands of oil over the years. I didn't just blindly switch to Amsoil products. I tested everything I use in different situations and had no plan of switching unless Amsoil proved to be better. It beat the other brands every time.

Oil does get nasty. That's why premium filters are worth the money . If you can't filter the oil it gets nasty. That reason alone is why I don't use Wix filters. They don't have the filter media that several other brands do. Not the worst on the market but far from the best.

Nasty at 13,000?
Was the engine flushed before the Amsoil was installed?
Did the filters get changed every 3,000 miles?

It's not the oil's fault if it gets dirty. That is what the oil filter is far. Sounds like the filter let you down, not the oil.

When my F 150 was driven full time the oil at 25,000 was just starting to turn a dark brown. It was cleaner looking than the Mobil was at 3,000.

I do agree that everybody should use what makes them feel good.

It got one filter change, at 8000 miles like normal. When i use conventional it is fine at 8000 miles. Engines get nasty because they pull in dirt from the air, they are air pumps and there are dirt particles in the air, that gets forced into the engine when the engine fires. There is not an engine on the planet that is totally sealed off and does not pass dirt and combustion particles into the oil, none! Oil gets nasty and there isn't anything you can do about, unless you just don't run it. The Wix filters do a great job, always have, and always will, it's a quality product.

If you would like to discuss sealing off an engine for maximum combustion and the least leak down, I'm your man, I've done things most would never dream of with race engines. In fact, was doing some things back in the early 80's that motorcycle and car manufacturers are now using in production vehicles. Oil tests? I've tested so many oils in race applications it's ridiculous, under extreme conditions, like air cooled two strokes at 17.5 to 1 compression ratios. Cylinder head temperatures on air cooled engines over 600 degrees, with no damage to internal components. Guess what oils we ran that worked the best, I'll give you a hint, they weren't synthetics most of the time.;)

[Bulldog]

Any product used improperly is doomed to fail.
A test that done incorrectly has false results.
Opinions based on false results cannot be accurate or correct.

[vfr700f2]

For my employer, I've just bought 4 Kubota RTV900s, and will buy 2 more soon. They serve as passenger tram haulers on a school campus, running ~14 hrs per day, pulling 2400 - 5800 LB in sunny Florida. Maximum temp here is about 95. Minimum is around 34, and doesn't last long. Terrain is fairly level. Well, it's slightly hilly for coastal Florida, but the rest of you would call it flat as a board. We operate on paved roads with a 10-MPH speed limit, running in medium range. We might actually go 15 mph sometimes. Our trip is ~7 minutes long, with a few stops & starts. Then we wait ~3 minutes and go again.

The below photo shows an RTV1140 we demoed, but at least you can see my tram trailers.

http://images15.fotki.com/v587/photos/3/32054/2016950/Picture135-vi.jpg

For me, a 300-hr interval is about every 3 weeks, and I'll have 4 to 6 Kubota vehicles @ 2.6 gal each! That's a lot of Super UDT... While they are in warranty, I'm definitely sticking with the required intervals, and considering the temps and loads, I think I need to use Super UDT (or equivalent), not regular UDT.

I plan on using oil analysis regularly, and would be happy to extend my intervals or use a less-costly fluid (after the warranty period) if I can count on it not doing any harm. Extended intervals in my situation probably won't lead to condensation problems like you'd have in "normal" use.

My local Kubota dealer gets $24/gal for a 5-gal pail of Super UDT. Thanks for the info on Chevron THF (above) but it's $1876 for a 55-gal drum. That's ~$34/gal. I'm waiting to find what discount they'll offer, but I doubt it'll be enough. Especially since Kubota is ~10 minutes away and the Chevron supplier is not. They claim it's only available in drums and they only have one drum on hand, so resupply may be inconsistent.

I saw discussion of Texas Refinery Corp UTF-Red on another board. TRC says the fluid is comparable to Super UDT, and at least one guy thinks it's better. The prices mentioned in the thread are several years old now, and were just a hair lower than Super UDT at the time, though shipping was free on orders over $300. I've emailed TRC....

Shell has Spirax S4 TXM, which they describe as a very premium fluid but their info doesn't mention meeting either of the Kubota specs. I've sent an inquiry, but if anyone knows for sure it's not comparable to Super UDT, please let me know.

If anyone has advice on products, change intervals, or anything else that might be helpful in my situation, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks for all the great info in this thread!

kevin

[Stumpy]

Haven't read the whole thread and don't have time to right now but the conclusion I've come to on Super UDT is that any high quality (not $45 for 5 gals) synthetic UTF is equivalent. If a fluid meets John Deere's more common J20C and J20D spec it's at least the equivalent of UDT. To the best of my knowledge the only difference between UDT and Super UDT is the super is a full synthetic fluid. $24 a gallon was about right price wise for synthetic UTF if I remember correctly. Considering the high usage rate and high temperatures you'd probably be better off with synthetics as they resist break down under high heat better.

Take it with a grain of salt as always.

EDIT: Super UDT is apparently not a synthetic oil, see later post. Disregard most of that, no longer sure about anyway but the last two sentences. Apologies.

[gurn]

I think I remember Vic saying SUDT is not synthetic, just mainly better in the cold and can go twice as long between changes.

[Stumpy]

I found the post where he says that (http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48) (6th result down on googling:super udt synthetic).

If you look at the viscosity characteristics (http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/oil-fuel-lubricants/17636-no-kubota-udt-super-udt.html) compared with regular UDT it flows much better cold while having similar viscosity hot. Reading those I usually see that with synthetic or semi-synthetic oil though I suppose they could have pumped it full of VI enhancers. I would take Vic at his word though, he's got a much clearer line of information than I do.

[vfr700f2]

One Chevron source offered me the THF for about $23.60/gal in a drum, a few cents cheaper than Super UDT in pails. Nice deal, but it's still a big investment and takes up a lot of space.

[vfr700f2]

Current price on TRC fluids (red or regular) = $131.40 for a 6-gal pail. That's $21.90/gal. A $375 order gets you free shipping.

My owners manual gives the service intervals, but doesn't give a longer interval if using Super UDT vs regular. My manual doesn't seem to require Super, although it does say to refer to dealer for recommendation. Am I correct in assuming that I must follow the intervals to maintain warranty coverage?

Are filters available with equal or better quality to Kubota parts, but less expensive? Do we have the factory specs for filter performance?

I am NOT interested in a "bargain" fluid or filter, I just want the best deal on OE or better quality.

So, does this sound like a good plan:

If regular UDT is suitable for my application, and I'm changing at the recommended interval (200 hr filters, 400 hr fluid), I should be fine using regular UDT throughout the warranty period. I will use a quality major-brand fluid that "meets or exceeds" UDT spec. I do NOT want one that "is suitable for use where UDT is specified".

AFTER the warranty period, I'll switch to a premium fluid and stretch out the intervals as far as my used oil analysis permits.

Keep in mind, cold temps are not an issue for me. My units will be garaged when not in use. They are used 14 hours per day, 365 days per year. My current fuel tank does not have a meter, but measuring by eyeball, fuel use is less than 1/4 gal per hour. A 400 hour interval is once a month.

I appreciate any guidance you can give. This is my first experience with this sort of equipment, and my situation is a bit outside the "normal" use you'd expect.

Thanks!
kevin

[Bulldog]

From my own personal experience using Amsoil tractor trans/hyd fluid it would work well for you. It makes a big difference reducing heat and is rated for extended service intervals.

With a commercial account it would cost you 27.80/gal in 5 gallon buckets, 25.05/gal in 55 gallon drums.

[Stumpy]

Heh just realized the link I posted last time was the first page of this thread. Whoops.

I though about mentioning the Amsoil but didn't since their UTF is kinda pricey even for them, top quality products though. No idea about the engine filters but my experience with cars is the factory filters are usually very good. I'm not sure you have much choice anyway.

What a freaking mess, I'm no longer sure about what one thing I posted earlier so I'm going to go remove that for anyone reading this later. I though commercial engine oil was a mess of hazy information and confusion but this UTF stuff puts it to shame. I think I may have to track down an engineer in the industry and get this straightened out. For now I've got to get back to studying but I'll say that sounds like an excellent plan. Keep an eye on your iron number while using UDT and perhaps before the warranty runs out and you switch your whole fleet try a few different fluid options in your machines.

[vfr700f2]

Thanks, Bulldog, but I figure Genuine Kubota Super UDT is plenty good AND plenty expensive. My goal is to find something as good or better, but for less money. No offense to Amsoil fans, but IMHO no Amsoil product will ever be less money than the competition.

[WayneJessie]

For my employer, I've just bought 4 Kubota RTV900s, and will buy 2 more soon. They serve as passenger tram haulers on a school campus, running ~14 hrs per day, pulling 2400 - 5800 LB in sunny Florida. Maximum temp here is about 95. Minimum is around 34, and doesn't last long. Terrain is fairly level. Well, it's slightly hilly for coastal Florida, but the rest of you would call it flat as a board. We operate on paved roads with a 10-MPH speed limit, running in medium range. We might actually go 15 mph sometimes. Our trip is ~7 minutes long, with a few stops & starts. Then we wait ~3 minutes and go again.

The below photo shows an RTV1140 we demoed, but at least you can see my tram trailers.

http://images15.fotki.com/v587/photos/3/32054/2016950/Picture135-vi.jpg

For me, a 300-hr interval is about every 3 weeks, and I'll have 4 to 6 Kubota vehicles @ 2.6 gal each! That's a lot of Super UDT... While they are in warranty, I'm definitely sticking with the required intervals, and considering the temps and loads, I think I need to use Super UDT (or equivalent), not regular UDT.

I plan on using oil analysis regularly, and would be happy to extend my intervals or use a less-costly fluid (after the warranty period) if I can count on it not doing any harm. Extended intervals in my situation probably won't lead to condensation problems like you'd have in "normal" use.

My local Kubota dealer gets $24/gal for a 5-gal pail of Super UDT. Thanks for the info on Chevron THF (above) but it's $1876 for a 55-gal drum. That's ~$34/gal. I'm waiting to find what discount they'll offer, but I doubt it'll be enough. Especially since Kubota is ~10 minutes away and the Chevron supplier is not. They claim it's only available in drums and they only have one drum on hand, so resupply may be inconsistent.

I saw discussion of Texas Refinery Corp UTF-Red on another board. TRC says the fluid is comparable to Super UDT, and at least one guy thinks it's better. The prices mentioned in the thread are several years old now, and were just a hair lower than Super UDT at the time, though shipping was free on orders over $300. I've emailed TRC....

Shell has Spirax S4 TXM, which they describe as a very premium fluid but their info doesn't mention meeting either of the Kubota specs. I've sent an inquiry, but if anyone knows for sure it's not comparable to Super UDT, please let me know.

If anyone has advice on products, change intervals, or anything else that might be helpful in my situation, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks for all the great info in this thread!

kevin

Texas Refinery makes a killer fluid designed to run much longer intervals than the OE fluid. Schaeffer Oil makes a product called 315 that I have run in my Hydro Botas with superb intervals backed up by oil analysis. I have not used the Amsoil product but I have no doubt it can greatly extend intervals in sound equipment. The RTVs are excellent candidates for extending the intervals.