L245 - Had a "clunk"

[dr phil]

Got the steering box back together and is working great.
My son was operating moving dirt around with the FEL when there was a "clunk" that I heard from 40 feet away. Now it does not always go into gear without some gear grinding. Does not happen all the time. Any ideas?
Also he was sometimes letting the tractor roll backwards down hill with it in a forward gear and the clutch petal down before it happened. Also maybe a new noise (being more critical now and listening harder) -- when driving the transmission makes a sound similar to the sound a standard transmission car makes when driving in reverse faster than normal.
Thanks,
Phil

[dr phil]

The tractor runs and drives great sometimes but at other times it seems like the clutch does not completely disengage -- likely the cause of difficult shfting and grinding gears at times. Also a couple of times the clutch has not disengaged at all -- had too kill the engine to prevent climbing up a steep pile of dirt and possible flipping over (read adrenaline rush)
Thanks,
Phil

[Service Dept Vic]

Dr Phil,

Now that I am reading your post I have a much better understanding of this problem. It is found in this statement:

"letting the tractor roll backwards down hill with the transmission shifted into a forward gear and the clutch pedal was pushed in".

By rolling backwards down hill the gear shafts in the transmission would be made to turn one direction, while the engine rotated the main input shaft in the opposite direction.

When the clutch is released you'd hear the bang as the transmission shafts "locked" internaly. I'll bet the tractor stalled out.

I'm thinking that you have either: a gear that is 'welded" into it's companion gear, a gear or two that have a big chunk of missing teeth, or a shifter fork inside the transmission that is broken.

Time to remove the stick shift cover plate and get a look in there.

If the stickshift was in "neutral" and your son rolled backwards downhill nothing would have happened to damage the transmission as the gears would not have been "aligned" in a configuration to move the tractor in a forward direction.

You're looking at a transmission issue there Dr. Phil. Me and Mr. K and dusty-t are ready to support the hell out of you as you and you son split that L245!

[dr phil]

Unfortunately, I will be splitting the tractor by myself as my son was only down for the long weekend.
I will look under the stick shift cover tomorrow or Monday.
Phil

[dr phil]

If am going to be splitting this thing what is the order of removing things.
Where do you disconnect the hydraulic lines? At the pump?
Also, do you keep the front half stationary and roll the back half away or the other way around?
I don't want to make this any harder than necessary.
Thanks,
Phil

[Michael]

I have always removed the lines at the pump and the transmission and put them aside. They are easy to damage leaving them connected to the engine or the transmission.

I have always when I split a tractor rolled the rear half away from the engine and leaving the engine stationary as you want to keep the back half level as it is rolled back until the pilot shaft is cleared of the bell housing.

When you do this you want to make the tractor as light as possible and I remove everything on the back half that can be unbolted. I remove the seat, the lift arms, the upper links and the ROPS if your tractor is equipped, along with the fenders and anything else that is directly bolted to the back half. Also you will have to remove the foot boards and the disconnect the brake linkage.

Since you ended up splitting the tractor I would also do a complete clutch replacement at this time even if the clutch looks good as why not fix everything that even might need replacing.

One other piece of advise is get the digital camera and take lots of pictures of every step of the disassembly as this will be your reference guide when you put it back together, I also have the habit of taking a sharpie pen and marking every bolt and right beside the hole with a number and then taking a picture of it as I go to remember to put the bolt back in the same place as it was before.

I know that there is more info from Vic.

[Mr. K]

Yep! Great advice Michael!

[dusty-t]

Yup I'm with Michael take off as much of as you can. The steps and fenders and such come off really quick. I'm really big on bracing , when I split the b7200 I built stands and bolted them to the frame. When I pulled it apart there was no problem nothing moved up or down because of the stands and it went back together just as easy. Vic & Mr K. and Michael are pretty smart cookies. You won't go too far wrong on their advice and I'll put my two cents in where I can. Good luck and keep us posted.

[dr phil]

Quote:
I'm thinking that you have either: a gear that is 'welded" into it's companion gear, a gear or two that have a big chunk of missing teeth, or a shifter fork inside the transmission that is broken.
Would this explain why the clutch does not always disengage?
Thanks again
Phil

[Service Dept Vic]

Yes. Get a look under that cover first before you get into looking at that clutch. If everything is moving fine on all the gear shafts, and all the gears have all their teeth, and there are no broken shifter forks, then it's onto the clutch.

Michael is right on the money with elimination of weight and rolling the back part of the tractor away.

Take a look at dusty-t's pictures and you'll see he fabricated a kind of "kick" stand to support the engine portion of his B7200 on his split. Can be as simple as a chunk of flat iron with a hole or two drilled in it and mounted to the side of the block/frame to make a "leg".

We're here for ya, bro!

[dr phil]

Took the shift leaver cover off -- Everything looks ok to my unexperienced eyes.
Shifter forks seem ok, did not see any broken teeth and gears appear to move.
I expect it might be quite a chore to get it back together properly-- especially the pto shifter.

[Service Dept Vic]

Well as much as a pain that it was to take that apart Dr. Phil, it's good news if nothing is broken or missing teeth!

Before splitting that L245 to get a look at the clutch disc and main input spline, investigate a few other simple things.

Jack up the back end, rotate the rear tires in both directions with tractor in neutral. Everything move freely? No binding? Do the same with the front drive axle. If you feel the transmission is ok, then checking final drives like this is real simple and could save you some heartache if the problem resides there.

Remove the clutch release bearing cover and have a helper operate the clutch through it's full range of movement. Make sure the clutch release bearing fork is not bent, jammed or broken. Is the return spring attached?

You had that steering box off a few times over the last while, is it possible that something fell into the clutch area through that opening under the box?? Just a thought.

Let us know what you find out. Take pics. Share your stories. Tell us about your frustrations and which knuckle you skin taking the brake return springs off the footboards.

[dr phil]

Quote --Jack up the back end, rotate the rear tires in both directions with tractor in neutral. Everything move freely? No binding? Do the same with the front drive axle. If you feel the transmission is ok, then checking final drives like this is real simple and could save you some heartache if the problem resides there.


Everything fine there.

Spent two hours with a friend trying to put the shifter mechanism back on -- there must be an easier way --- will try again once the tractor is split --- probably happening tomorrow.

How do you remove the drive shaft to the front axle?
Start at the front or rear?
Drain fluid first?

Thanks,
Phil

[dr phil]

Ok -- got the tractor split -- see the photo of what the clutch plate looked like.

Also the other photo is what I believe is where the hydraulic fluid screen is located. How do I get it apart to clean it?

Vic -- I will phone you in the morning.

Phil

[Michael]

I think you found the problem :eek: that clutch is gone as you so aptly can see. Now that you are in you should also want to replace the front main seal of the transmission and check the front input shaft as they do tend to wear and it is a fine time to also replace these items at the very least get that seal replaced. You want to make sure that you only go in once and not again for something in 6 months down the road, dry clutches for some strange reason do not like oil.

Also really check the flywheel close as it might need to be replaced by the damage that was done when the clutch shattered, at the very least the flywheel in my mind is highly suspect as every clutch I have replaced that has been shattered, I did not even bother to having the flywheel resurfaced I replaced it as it fell out of min. thickness to get though all the grooves that the bad clutch caused.

From the looks of that clutch you can now say that your son did not cause that and that the clutch was going it just happened that he was sitting on the tractor when the clutch blew.

[Service Dept Vic]

Dr Phil,

There will be a "coupling" located at either end of the front drive shaft. You have to undo the bolts that hold the protective tube cover on and slide it down to expose the coupling. Start with the rear one. Drive out the roll pin or remove the cir clip depending on serial number. Once this is removed the coupling will slide free allowing you to remove it, gaining the space needed to remove the shaft. You should only need to remove the coupling from one end.

[Service Dept Vic]

Nice looking clutch disc there!

[dr phil]

Before trying to put the shifter mechanism back on(successful this time) I decided to clean all the gunk out of the bottom of the sump located beneath and just ahead of the oil filler port and found some pieces of metal. See Photo. Any ideas --- I looked at and felt all the gears and everything seems intact. Possible leftovers from an earlier repair?

[Michael]

Those pieces look more like large shavings left over from when the tractor was originally built. If everything else looks good I suspect that maybe where they were located at they did not get pulled out of the transmission when the transmission was serviced and maintenance was performed.

As long as everything looks good I would proceed with the replacement of the clutch.

[Service Dept Vic]

Ya, I agree with Michael. If you can't find anything chipped off or broken then it's just assembly "flash". Too big to get sucked up, heavy enough to stay out of the way.

[dr phil]

Thank you I was hoping that was the case.
What are the torque requirements for the clutch pressure plate bolts?
Phil

[dr phil]

Another reassembly question -- How does one remove the old pilot bearing?

[Service Dept Vic]

Kubota lists a "clutch to flywheel bolt torque" spec of 17-20 FT LBS, but I can't find a pressure plate to flywheel spec. I wonder if this is a misprint in the WSM?

I usually just make sure they are tight so I haven't looked at a manual spec in a long time!

[Service Dept Vic]

With a $300 Kubota OTC tool!!

You need something small enough to fit in that hole but that still has a bit of a angle to it so you can "pick" that old bushing out.

Were parts all OK??

[Michael]

With a $300 Kubota OTC tool!!

You need something small enough to fit in that hole but that still has a bit of a angle to it so you can "pick" that old bushing out.

Were parts all OK?? Or the method I have used in the past a hammer and a small chisel sorry I will not buy a tool for a one time use that cost that much. A buddy of mine used a Demel tool with a small cutting wheel. What he did was cut it about 3/4ths of the way through the bushing and then hit it with a punch and the bushing just broke into pieces.

What ever method used just be careful not to go to deep.

[dr phil]

OK thanks. I quess I will have to move the two halves further apart so I can get my head, hands and a tool or two in there.

[dr phil]

Got it all back together and running.
Do I need to bleed the hydraulic pressure system?
Phil